So on another board I visited, someone mentioned that they had heard the reason they dropped the appetizer for the dining plan is to increase table turnover rates. OF COURSE! They want to fit more people in, make more reservation slots, sell more stuff!'

So the chances of them changing it to "appetizer or dessert" is slim to none, since the reasoning was purely about timing. BUMMER!:crying:

Anyone else agree that this makes sense?

The official Disney UK site has not been pricing packages with the dining plan for weeks - I assumed they were making the changes we've all heard about. However, the dining plan is back on there now and when pricing an August 2008 package this is what is said in the small print.

This plan offers 2 meals and 1 snack per night of stay for everyone in the party aged 3 years and over at more than 100 restaurants. The allowance per person per night of stay is as follows:
- 1 Table Service (starter, main course, dessert, non-alcoholic drink or full buffet)
- 1 Quick Service (main course, dessert, non-alcoholic drink or full combo meal with dessert and non-alcoholic beverage)
- 1 Snack (such as a piece of fruit, ice cream, popcorn or soft drink)

Presumably they would have to honour this?

Also from your info above, Disney will increase their prophits twice. Once on the lesser value plan and again getting more bums on seats. May the magic live on ;)

I think the table turnover rate is part of them making more money, which is of course, the bottom line. I agree with you.

I can see if they let guests choose, one person might order dessert and one person might order an appetizer thus keeping the time at the table about the same as the current plan.

But overall, I'm still disappointed. They are taking something that was great, that offered guests a nice experience at a good price, and now shrinking it to get more money on their end. Grrr.

I can see holes in this logic, even if it is true. Don't the appetizers usually arrive while you're waiting for the main course? If you don't order appetizers, you're left there waiting, with nothing to do but eat bread. I cannot imagine that this will shave off a tremendous amount of time. If anything, eliminating dessert would save the most time, because people like to linger after eating, enjoying that second cup of coffee with dessert. Plus, I wager that they would do better just to increase the price of the plan by a few dollars than to eliminate appetizers in an attempt to try and shush people out the door faster. Just my little ole honest opinion.

I can see holes in this logic, even if it is true. Don't the appetizers usually arrive while you're waiting for the main course? If you don't order appetizers, you're left there waiting, with nothing to do but eat bread.

Actually, no. As a waitress, I can attest that usually when there is an appetizer, you have to delay putting in the dinner order. Otherwise the dinner order will arrive at the same time as the appetizer. So you generally wait until the appetizer is delivered (of course this timing is tweaked depending on how long a particular dish takes to prepare--a good waiter with experience at a given restaurant will know how to time appropriately) before you even enter the dinner order. Then it is being prepared while they eat and enjoy the appetizer, and then the meal is delivered. Voila. You added 15-30 minutes to the turnover by selling an appetizer.

And I suspect that the timing is six-and-one-half-dozen between a dessert or an appetizer, but being that there is such a huge population of kids...what do you think won out when one had to go? The calamari or the chocolate cake?:p

And I suspect that the timing is six-and-one-half-dozen between a dessert or an appetizer, but being that there is such a huge population of kids...what do you think won out when one had to go? The calamari or the chocolate cake?:p
Except if I was there on the plan with someone else - we'd probably get an appetizer with one person's meal, and then a dessert with the others, and split both (so we could have calamari AND chocolate!) - so it wouldn't do anything with the turnover time.

Actually, no. As a waitress, I can attest that usually when there is an appetizer, you have to delay putting in the dinner order. Otherwise the dinner order will arrive at the same time as the appetizer. So you generally wait until the appetizer is delivered (of course this timing is tweaked depending on how long a particular dish takes to prepare--a good waiter with experience at a given restaurant will know how to time appropriately) before you even enter the dinner order. Then it is being prepared while they eat and enjoy the appetizer, and then the meal is delivered. Voila. You added 15-30 minutes to the turnover by selling an appetizer.

And I suspect that the timing is six-and-one-half-dozen between a dessert or an appetizer, but being that there is such a huge population of kids...what do you think won out when one had to go? The calamari or the chocolate cake?:p

I stand corrected, but I wonder if someone who eats an appetizer, eats as much of their main course as they would have it they had not had an appetizer, and does this make up any of that time? I don't know; I just wish they'd change the dining plan back to the way it was: it was so much fun using it this last trip, and I'd like to do it again, but not under the new set-up.:crying:

I don't know; I just wish they'd change the dining plan back to the way it was: it was so much fun using it this last trip, and I'd like to do it again, but not under the new set-up.:crying:
Personally I would like them to do away with the dining plan!

The food has been dumbed down considerably. Before the dining plan it would be possible, especially at the Epcot restaurants, to get very high quality cuts of meat and items which took work and for which higher prices could be charged.

I have been told by the general managers of two different restaurants that the restaurant is given a fixed payment, which includes allowance for server tips, for each meal served. People would go for the most expensive dishes and the restaurants would actually lose money on them, so they have done away with the high end items except at the Signature Restaurants.

And then we can discuss the crowding, but that's something else entirely.

Except if I was there on the plan with someone else - we'd probably get an appetizer with one person's meal, and then a dessert with the others, and split both (so we could have calamari AND chocolate!) - so it wouldn't do anything with the turnover time.

I think we're saying the same thing, though, Drince. I wish they would allow us a choice between app and dessert, so if you go with a friend, you can get one of each. I was kinda holding out for that change to come into play. But now that the idea of turnover time has been introduced as a reason, I don't believe that will happen, because it would make the tables take just as long as they do now If they want the turnover to be faster, then they have to do away with either the starter or the finisher item. They chose the former.

I too had my fingers crossed that it would be an either/or proposition. So, at Prime Time(as an example) we could share onion rings, both order the entree of our choice and then split that brownie thing with the caramel corn. Not that this was a fondly remembered meal or anything;)

Wondering if in practice, you would be allowed to make that substitution come January '08. And if as Scooby says the UK plan still includes the starter, how in the World are the servers supposed to keep track of who gets to do what?

As for tip not being included, I can see the wait staff getting stiffed on a regular basis, if it's not made extremely clear to the patrons, that such is not the case. Happens to my son all the time(he's a waiter) when visitors from other countries come into the restuarant.

The "value" of the regular dining plan is in severe question as far as I'm concerned. Deluxe now, that's a different kettle of fish....

Personally I would like them to do away with the dining plan!

The food has been dumbed down considerably. Before the dining plan it would be possible, especially at the Epcot restaurants, to get very high quality cuts of meat and items which took work and for which higher prices could be charged.

I have been told by the general managers of two different restaurants that the restaurant is given a fixed payment, which includes allowance for server tips, for each meal served. People would go for the most expensive dishes and the restaurants would actually lose money on them, so they have done away with the high end items except at the Signature Restaurants.

And then we can discuss the crowding, but that's something else entirely.Gee I keep saying this. as someone who lived through the first finning plan, the "food and fun" card I have seen this before. the next step will be certain restaurants will offer only certain dishes, certain full service locations will only except the plan for lunch. finally in a short year or two the plan will quietly disappear as only the most gullible visitors will opt for a plan that is little more the a discount on a few Disney owned establishments.

You all make excellent points about the dining plan. I guess I'm just saying that from my point of view (I'm a vegetarian, and as such my choices are already pretty limited), I loved being able to eat as much as I did for the price that I paid; it was fun to try things and have dessert every meal without having to worry about any additional cost. Perhaps they could tweak the plan a bit and keep a few of the nicer restaurants off the list of participating sites? Just a thought. But all of you make excellent points.

Wondering if in practice, you would be allowed to make that substitution come January '08. And if as Scooby says the UK plan still includes the starter, how in the World are the servers supposed to keep track of who gets to do what?

..

Ah - well yes that detail is on the site and is clearly a mistake. I have now been into a different part of the site which describes the differences between the 2007/8 plans, they obviously havn't updated all of the drop downs properly. There will be no starters for UK visitors.

Free dining for August 2008 (10th +) is been offered now though on this site. You have to book before November.

WOW! That is EARLY to offer, and early for UK Mouse Lovers to plan! Yikes!