Is anyone else aggravated by the change in the dining plan to NOT include gratuities??? The beauty of the Dining Plan for us was not worrying about how much we were spending on meals and not having to bring cash with us everywhere. The savings were there if I planned it right, but it has always been much more food than we would typically order. Unless this changes again for 2009, I don't think we would book the plan again. Magic Kill!!!!!:mad:

Mark's update today (click here (http://www.mouseplanet.com/articles.php?art=wd070806mg)) has links to the WDW official pages about the various dining plan options

Is anyone else aggravated by the change in the dining plan to NOT include gratuities???

Read the above thread. Yes, I don't like this change. It's going to hurt the CM waitstaff, as people conveniently "forget" that the plan no longer includes tip. And even if people do remember to tip, there's going to be a tendency to not actually tip on the amount of the check, but just throw down 5 bucks or so and think that that's OK. It'll save Disney a bunch of money, at the expense of their guests' convenience and their employees' financial bottom line. Very bad form, Disney.

I agree. I don't like the idea of the tips being removed from the part of the dining plan. It is sooo much easier to have the tip included. Who wants to have to "think" and calculate tips on a vacation, lol. :P

As GusMan said, it does seem like a lot of the value is gone, because the appetizer is no longer a part of it, AND the tip now too. It may not seem worth to do the basic DDP next year.

I think when I go next year I won't even get the plan. It isn't really a deal anymore and my husband and I can split big meals with deserts (for dinner) and come out cheaper.

I'm planning on 8 days in August 08. I'm taking away 1 full day for meals missed for departures & arrivals. The basic meal plan works out to be $151.95/day for 7 days for a family of four (kids will be 12 & 15). What do you think? Would this still be worth it?

Way back on 1/11/05 I predicted this...
http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?t=35953&highlight=food+card
like the food and fun card, Disney promissed great things and delivered little. I see the same happening here. the magic plus dining card will die a slow and painful death with only the ill informed using it. :crying: :( :mad:
Like with the food and fun card they start a great program, get greedy and destroy it. I now predict that the DDP has two years max before nobody uses it except when it's offered free. then Disney will phase it out... again

I'm planning on 8 days in August 08. I'm taking away 1 full day for meals missed for departures & arrivals. The basic meal plan works out to be $151.95/day for 7 days for a family of four (kids will be 12 & 15). What do you think? Would this still be worth it?

It all depends on whether you would be eating at more expensive or table service meals, anyway, and what you would be ordering. When the time comes, review the menus and prices on allearsnet.com, and decide where you want to eat, considering both counter service and table service places. Make your desired AR's for table service places, considering whether, if you were paying OOP, you would eat at a table service place every day. Then, cost it out, and go from there. It's easier to figure with buffets and other fixed price meals, but, for other table service places, figure it based on whether you would all order an appetizer, dessert, etc. You don't have to add the Dining Plan to your reservation when you book your room, you can wait until after you make your AR's.

For us, I think we won't do the plan anymore. I get a discount with the Disney Dining Experience card, and the Dining plan encourages us to eat too much anyway. We will be staying at DVC resort rooms, so we'll just "eat in," for breakfasts and some lunches, and do more counter service places.

I agree. I don't like the idea of the tips being removed from the part of the dining plan. It is sooo much easier to have the tip included. Who wants to have to "think" and calculate tips on a vacation, lol. :P

As GusMan said, it does seem like a lot of the value is gone, because the appetizer is no longer a part of it, AND the tip now too. It may not seem worth to do the basic DDP next year.


I do so enjoy the convenience of the plan !! Even by removing a whole lot of the value of the plan (appetizers AND tips), I'll still think about it, simply for the convenience. But, after further review, that's just TOO MUCH value that's gone from the plan. In fact, the plan was about the only reason we ever booked as a "package," rather than just room-only & tickets.

Somebody refresh my memory, other than the dining plan, what else can I only get with a "package" that would be so irresistable as to keep me from booking room-only, and getting discount tickets from Undercover Tourist or somewhere like that ?? :confused:

Somebody refresh my memory, other than the dining plan, what else can I only get with a "package" that would be so irresistable as to keep me from booking room-only, and getting discount tickets from Undercover Tourist or somewhere like that ?? :confused:

I haven't booked a package in quite a while - but a few years back they had a 'pay for 4 get 7 days' and a 'pay for 5 get 7 days' package a year later (I may be off on the numbers, but it was a better deal the first year). You also will occassionally get little trinkets. One time, when Philharmagic had just opened, it was a nice poster of Donald and a pin, all framed up. And too big for my suitcase, even if I didn't have anything in it, so the 'free' framed poster cost me the price of the UPS shipment (I figured who ever dreamed up that promotion had stock in UPS!)

You can have your tickets added to your room key, so that's not a big issue. (But only do that if you're going to use it all up on the trip).

AND the payment options are much more in your favor on a room only (one night deposit, balance due at check in)

This will probably be the last year that we are on the DDP. I really liked the fact that the 18% gratuity was included in the TS meals. I can definitely see people not leaving a tip at all when using the plan at a TS restaurant.

I'll probably just get the DDE card next year.

This is starting in 2008 correct? I haven't purchased the DDP for our October trip yet and I hope it's not retroactive.

Looking on Disney's site, it looks like it is for 2008 packages only. Since you are still going in 2007, you should be okay.

I'd check with Disney or your travel agent to be sure. Oh, and be sure to get it soon if you plan to, especially set up those ADRs since you are within 180 days of your trip, if you haven't done so already. :)

Looking on Disney's site, it looks like it is for 2008 packages only. Since you are still going in 2007, you should be okay.

I'd check with Disney or your travel agent to be sure. Oh, and be sure to get it soon if you plan to, especially set up those ADRs since you are within 180 days of your trip, if you haven't done so already. :)

Thanks! I haven't decided about the dining plan yet since I can book it a couple of days before arriving through the DVC.

I have all of my ADRs already. I was even able to get lunch at Le Cellier. :fez:

The cast member I talked to said dinner at Le Cellier is booked through December. :eek:

Okay, this is an honest question and not one meant to "stir the pot."

My wife and I get done with a meal at Le Cellier. We are on the "basic" dining plan for 2008. We both have an alcoholic drink a piece, we share an appetizer, and those are the only expenses that we have to pay on top of the dining plan.
Now the bill is roughly $100. So, I normally tip 15%.

What most assume is that the tip would be $15.

I think that the tip should be $9. Why? I figure that after the snack and CS portion of the meal plan that the TS portion is $20 per person. So with my wife and my totals adding to $60 ($5 appetizer, $15 alcohol, $40 dining plan) under this theory, the staff gets a tip that I leave at Outback for Le Cellier quality.

Why should I pay a tip something that I am not paying for?

This is an honest question and is one that I think many have in the back of their minds. And it is also the kind of behavior that can give birth to less than spectacular service in places that we have had wonderful experiences and service like at Le Cellier.

I would never go the deluxe route. It takes too much time away from the parks. But I hope people flock to this option for that same reason -- short lines during meal times!

This is an honest question and is one that I think many have in the back of their minds. And it is also the kind of behavior that can give birth to less than spectacular service in places that we have had wonderful experiences and service like at Le Cellier.
In this kind of situation--any kind of discount, shared meal or pre-paid plan--I always tip based on the menu price of the meal, not what I'm actually paying. It's not the server's fault that I'm paying less than the other tables they're working.

In this kind of situation--any kind of discount, shared meal or pre-paid plan--I always tip based on the menu price of the meal, not what I'm actually paying. It's not the server's fault that I'm paying less than the other tables they're working.

I understand and that is a great point, but under that reasoning, shouldn't we base every tip off of the most expensive meal since it is also not the servers fault that we did not order as much as the other table that is buying three rounds of drinks, two or three appetizers, Steak and Lobster all around, and then desert? I would argue (maybe in error) that the tip is always based on the total that I am paying and then more depending on my generosity. I am playing a bit of the devil's advocate here, so forgive that, but I am also not sure that I am not on to what most would think as far as tipping.

Again, I am trying to be respectful -- not combative.

Also, as an aside: My travel agent said that I got the last table at Le Cellier on Jan 15, 2008. Wow.

No, you tip on what you were served, not what you paid for it. Of course I wouldn't tip on what I wasn't served (something else on the menu).

It is this kind of mentality that makes servers cringe when the management puts out discounts. Because there will always be people who don't understand how tipping works, and decides they will only tip on the bill total after discounts, or will just throw down a 5 and figure "that's good enough for a discount meal". This did not change the work the server did, or what you were served or how you were served.

Tip your server what they are worth, people. In our society, it is understood that 15-20% of the cost of your meal, pre-discounts and pre-tax (if you want to be a stickler) is fair.

The cast member I talked to said dinner at Le Cellier is booked through December. :eek:

I believe it. I booked my dinners on April 14th, my 180 day mark for the first night. Since I am staying on property, I was able to book all 10 days at once. Trust me, my Le Cellier reservation is being held on tight, lol. :)

RE: the overall changes. Sounds like DIsney has a delicate balance to strike now, and the dining plan changes may be evidence of it.

As we see online here every day, the dining plan has made finding reservations at any of the table service restaurants a scramble. Even with a ridiculous length of time to plan at 180 days, if ytou call at 179, you sometimes can't get what reservations you want, because so many people on the DDP are filling up the restaurants. That seems a good deal for Disney...but...

we also see evidence of a lack of customer satisfaction that we as vacationers have to plan waaaay in advance, and think of the thousands of people NOT on these boards who know NOTHING about the dining-dance who go on vacation...and can't get a seat anywhere, and leave disgruntled with Disney. No bueno. The perfect balance would be to have the DDP be just popular enough to load the restaurants comfortably, and leave some seats for later reservations and walk-ins, building more on customer satisfaction while still packing the restaurants. How do they get people to back off on the DDP scramble? Lower the value just slightly.

And the DDP program, plus free DDP promotions over the past 4 years or so, has built up a solid interest in the table service restaurants that used to be much less popular with the family vacationing crowd. Since the DDP/Free DDP, how many thousands of people have dined at TS restaurants they wouldn't have normally, and have since spread the good word of mouth and online reviews that will likely carry a good amount of momentum into the coming years ahead. If one person who never did TS before, tried the DDP in 2005 and ended up falling in love with a few of the TS locations, now in the future doesn't do DDP, but spends that money between the new favorite restaurants without the DDP...that is a good deal for Disney.

Remember, Disney makes more money on people who go to the restaurants NOT on the DDP than they do on DDPers. On DDP, they had to dish out a huge load of food (ah the hook!) at a bargain price. Now they have hooked people into wanting to dine at full price, because they have made the DDP less appealing...but they are potentially going to make more on those people now.

I am sick with a flu-thing today, so I am not sure if my writing is coherent. I apologize if I have rambled.

To put it simply: they ruined it.

It's a shame that I was only able to enjoy the dining plan once, but in it's new state, I will not buy it. My only hope is that, once they realize how few people are buying the dining plan, they'll reinstate the original plan.

And the DDP program, plus free DDP promotions over the past 4 years or so, has built up a solid interest in the table service restaurants that used to be much less popular with the family vacationing crowd. Since the DDP/Free DDP, how many thousands of people have dined at TS restaurants they wouldn't have normally, and have since spread the good word of mouth and online reviews that will likely carry a good amount of momentum into the coming years ahead.

I think this is a really good point. We've never done the DDP, but because of all the restaurant talk it's generated on MP I was intrigued enough to try some new-to-us TS restaurants we'd never considered before. So even though we never even used the plan, it was indirectly responsible for us eating at more TS places.

Ducking out of the line of fire as I say this ... as someone the plan never really worked for, I'm a happy camper if this frees up the ADR situation somewhat and makes it once again possible to walk up to a TS restaurant and get a table.

Ducking out of the line of fire as I say this ... as someone the plan never really worked for, I'm a happy camper if this frees up the ADR situation somewhat and makes it once again possible to walk up to a TS restaurant and get a table.
I'll keep you company behind that large object! I'm in the exact same boat as you are! I doubt that you'll EVER be able to walk up to LeCellier at 6pm, but I'd be happy if you could make reservations for MOST locations within the week. One bonus I found for me in the popularity of the DDP was the ease in being able to reserve 'signature' locations. Because they were twice as expensive to those on the plan, they didn't book up as fast. I still have a couple on my list that I need to try, but my goal is to get to all of them!

It is this kind of mentality that makes servers cringe when the management puts out discounts. Because there will always be people who don't understand how tipping works, and decides they will only tip on the bill total after discounts...

So are you saying that if a restaurant has a special 10% off on all steaks, then I should tip on the normal, non-discounted price of my meal, or the actual price on the check? I can't see anyone needing to make that kind of calculation. If there's a discount, then I'd tip on what I actually spent. That's a different issue from the DDP, where I should be tipping on the total that I would have paid without the DDP.

And that brings up another question. On DDP meals, do they even give you a check that lets you know what the meal would have cost if you didn't use the DDP? From my recollection, the only receipt I got was on the alcohol that I consumed during dinner. Seems like there's another reason for customer dissatisfaction - getting a check that says "you ate this much food and should have paid this much money, please tip me on that amount, have a nice day".

Bad situation.

I just realized the CMs that are going to be really impacted by this change in policy - ALL servers are going to be impacted by the items being discussed here, but I know I don't normally tip 18% on buffets, when all they're doing is bringing drinks and clearing plates. So the servers at the buffets are going to get hit by those that haven't tipped on the DDP before, those doing 'creative math', and then those that tip lighter than the DDP for buffets.

I think we should start a write in campaigne to put the tip back in and give the choice of app. or dessert. what do you all think?