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lofosho
03-22-2007, 07:44 PM
I don't know how many times I have seen people with questionable injuries milking it to get special treatment at disneyland. Last time I was there, I saw a girl with an ace bandage on her ankle in a wheel chair, and she and her whole family, (15 people!) went to the front of splash mountain. Later that day, I saw her and her friends/family were staying at the same hotel as us. She was swimming in the pool, and got out and did cartweels and ran around! Has anyone else had similar experiences? What does disneyland do about this problem?


* I am in no way talking about people with real injuries or handicaps -- I applaud all that disneyland does to accomodate people with special needs! :D

crrees
03-22-2007, 07:53 PM
jealous?

jk

its unfort. people are so impatient that they cannot wait on line or take adv. of the fastpass system. What amazes me more is that her family let it happen. They possibly encouraged it!

adriennek
03-22-2007, 08:00 PM
I don't know how many times I have seen people with questionable injuries milking it to get special treatment at disneyland. Last time I was there, I saw a girl with an ace bandage on her ankle in a wheel chair, and she and her whole family, (15 people!) went to the front of splash mountain.

Well, that's not their fault. The maximum number of people that is supposed to accompany a person through a wheelchair exit/entrance is 6, not 15. Are you sure you didn't miscount?


What does disneyland do about this problem?

1- People 'caught' sharing a wheelchair will have the wheelchair taken away from them (if it is a DLR rental) and their money is not refunded to them.

2- They make it harder to get special 'passes' for having special needs. The current Guest Assistance Card is rather restrictive. Some people think this is for the better, others don't. Many people who formerly, regularly obtained Special Assistance Passes do not 'qualify' for a GAC and the way the GAC is used is more restrictive, too. It's not a front of the line card. For many, for example, it's merely a "use a stroller for a wheelchair" or "can't climb stairs" card.

3- Many lines are now wheelchair accessible. For example, at DCA, needing a wheelchair gets you... the chance to wait in line with everyone else. This is true of some lines at Disneyland as well, including Indiana Jones (up until the stairs.)

4- The lines for wheelchair users are not always faster than the regular lines. Waiting for the wheelchair access at certain attractions is actually rather painful. Pirates of the Carribbean and Space Mountain are two of the more notorious lines for this problem.

5- To the benefit of many, they accept that not all needs are visible. The people who I find remember this the most often are my friends who need special access the most. They're the quickest to remind me that I should not prejudge until I know the entire story.

Adrienne

futurecm21
03-22-2007, 08:05 PM
I honestly don't think that Disneyland can do much about this. I mean, what are the going to do, demand that the guest go to a hospital and have x-rays to prove she is actually disabled. The one thing they may be able to stop is having the guests whole group accompany them to the front of the line. Regardless, abuse of disabled guests policies is to me infuriating.:mad:

futurecm21

Malcon10t
03-22-2007, 08:07 PM
jealous?

jk

its unfort. people are so impatient that they cannot wait on line or take adv. of the fastpass system. What amazes me more is that her family let it happen. They possibly encouraged it!Problem is, the myth that the lines are faster is what causes this to happen. Many ride lines are as long, if not longer than the regular lines. POTC line regular line can be 20-30 minutes. The line for the HA access ranges from 45 mins to 90 mins. Space Mountain HA line is 45-60 mins, and we can't even try to use FP. Same with Splash. As long as people think the lines are shorter in HA, this will continue.

As far as 15 people, CMs are usually pretty good about not allowing more than 6. Fantasyland CMs are ademant about the 6. When we have more than 6 (well, they will allow us with 7) we go thru the regular line while my daughter waits at the HA. Here is an example. Haunted Mansion, my daughter and mother waited at the HA entrance while the rest of us (10 of us) went thru the regular line. When we reached the front door, they had us all step aside til they had room for us (as we have to enter last), then we continued thru the HA entrance. This is longer as once we arrive at the Doombuggies, we then have to wait for the #5 buggy (and if they are on buggy 10, we have a long wait, there are 131 buggies.) Then they load us.

The one ride the line is shorter is Jungle Cruise.

lofosho
03-22-2007, 08:13 PM
jealous?

jk

its unfort. people are so impatient that they cannot wait on line or take adv. of the fastpass system. What amazes me more is that her family let it happen. They possibly encouraged it!

lol, I didn't mean to sound so outraged :) It's just annoying. I was wondering if anyone else had had similar experiences? And I totally understand that some injuries may not be visible, and I'm not trying to judge people who have real physical problems.

adriennek
03-22-2007, 08:15 PM
As far as 15 people, CMs are usually pretty good about not allowing more than 6. Fantasyland CMs are ademant about the 6. When we have more than 6 (well, they will allow us with 7) we go thru the regular line while my daughter waits at the HA. Here is an example. Haunted Mansion, my daughter and mother waited at the HA entrance while the rest of us (10 of us) went thru the regular line. When we reached the front door, they had us all step aside til they had room for us (as we have to enter last), then we continued thru the HA entrance. This is longer as once we arrive at the Doombuggies, we then have to wait for the #5 buggy (and if they are on buggy 10, we have a long wait, there are 131 buggies.) Then they load us.


We've done this before, too, but mostly on Pirates on days when the HCA line is short. (HA HA. I just made myself laugh. Ok, but it HAS happened!)

And then, of course, when our group gets to the front of the standby line, we all have to scramble to actually GET on the same boat.

Adrienne

kbr
03-22-2007, 08:18 PM
This happened to me at Disneyland too! I was with my brother (who DOES have special needs) and there were four teenagers ahead of us, with one wheelchair, alternating between one another on Indiana Jones. The CMs saw and didn't even bother saying anything.

The worst part was that the whole time, they were playing around and shoving the wheelchair in the backs of our legs. Talk about rude..

Malcon10t
03-22-2007, 08:23 PM
lol, I didn't mean to sound so outraged :) It's just annoying. I was wondering if anyone else had had similar experiences? And I totally understand that some injuries may not be visible, and I'm not trying to judge people who have real physical problems.I'm just curious how you knew she went to the "front" of the Splash line. The HA line can be long inside, and they have a limit on the number of HA persons on the ride. Not sure when you saw this, but the line has various ways of being worked, so I would be hesitant to say the 15 people went to the front of the line.

lofosho
03-22-2007, 08:30 PM
I'm just curious how you knew she went to the "front" of the Splash line. The HA line can be long inside, and they have a limit on the number of HA persons on the ride. Not sure when you saw this, but the line has various ways of being worked, so I would be hesitant to say the 15 people went to the front of the line.

that particular situation was a few years ago. I think I typed "the last time" in my op, but it was a mistake, it was a few years ago. And the group of people went in through the exit. From what you were saying it doesnt sound like policy, but it happend! :)

Autopia Guy
03-22-2007, 08:48 PM
Yes, people abuse it. It is rather sad that they do. What a lesson to be teaching your kids...

I had a group of teen boys go up to the Fastpass split point on Autopia, and flash the GAC like it was contraband. However, the stamp they had was not one that is let through the Fastpass point. So, instead of listening to the CM, they walk off a bit, call Guest Relations on one of their cells and then come back stating that it works like a Fastpass for all the attractions. They ended up walking away mad because they didn't want to have to wait like 10 to 15 mins more in the regular line. Shining example of teens that don't want to follow the rules like everyone else does.

Malcon10t
03-22-2007, 08:57 PM
that particular situation was a few years ago. I think I typed "the last time" in my op, but it was a mistake, it was a few years ago. And the group of people went in through the exit. From what you were saying it doesnt sound like policy, but it happend! :)Usually, they will send the rest of the party out of the HA queue to the regular queue, then they rejoin when the party reached the front. If it happened before 2002/2003, the rules were different then. They were tightened up since then.

Heaven Is Disneyland
03-22-2007, 09:04 PM
We had gotten a special assistance pass in the past and we either got put into the fast pass line or on the older rides, waited by the exit and they let us on there. The person did not need to be in a wheelchair......

This past week, we tried to get one for my uncle who has severe Parkinson's, (it's really sad to see how it his condition has affected him) anyway, when we tried to get one, the girl was not very accomodating and said if he was not in a wheelchair, then we would still have to wait in line. I asked her about if we could go in the fast pass line and she said no. We got the little card anyway and sure enough, the first couple of places I tried to use it, they said no, we would have to wait in the main line.

I have seen a lot of abuse of this, saw a group of teenagers taking about what they were going to say and who was going to have the "hurt" knee.

It would of been great if they would of allowed us to use the pass like it was allowed to be used before.

adriennek
03-22-2007, 09:21 PM
This happened to me at Disneyland too! I was with my brother (who DOES have special needs) and there were four teenagers ahead of us, with one wheelchair, alternating between one another on Indiana Jones. The CMs saw and didn't even bother saying anything.

If it was line CMs, they won't. You need to alert Security CMs. Security CMs WILL take teh wheelchair, if it's a DLR rental, when they witness this kind of abuse. We've seen it happen.



This past week, we tried to get one for my uncle who has severe Parkinson's, (it's really sad to see how it his condition has affected him) anyway, when we tried to get one, the girl was not very accomodating and said if he was not in a wheelchair, then we would still have to wait in line. I asked her about if we could go in the fast pass line and she said no. We got the little card anyway and sure enough, the first couple of places I tried to use it, they said no, we would have to wait in the main line.

If she gave you a little card, there was a stamp on it that indicated what accommodation they would make. Not all GAC's are the same. The card is the same but the stamps are different. In fact, when I go with one of my friends, she gets one of the rarer stamps. Sometimes the CMs just glance at the card and try to tell us something different than we need. We've had to ask them to look at the card again. We're polite about it, and usually they apologize when they realize that they misread the card.

As for Fast Pass, the GAC may not allow you to use the Fast Pass line without having a Fast Pass, but you can still get a Fast Pass with your admission media and use that, of course. The only reason you wouldn't be able to is if there were stairs involved (in which case there would be an accommodation for that,) or if the FP wasn't wheelchair accessible, again, there'd be an accommodation for that, too. If you start collecting FP's early in the day, you can eventually get them for most of the attractions you would want them for.

Adrienne

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
03-22-2007, 09:57 PM
Interesting that I read this tonight. On my mommy board, a lady was asking about their first trip to WDW, I had to correct her as she was just calling it Disney, which drives me nuts. Anyway, she wanted to buy a pass that lets her go to the front of the line for every ride. One of the other responders to the thread, a So.Cal. resident commented to have someone use a wheelchair, and said that they like to take their nephew because he has one.
It is a shame people want to abuse the system and fake an injury, but I bet it does happen.
I think the # of people who can accompany a handicap guest should be limited, 6 is too many.

MickeyDogMom
03-22-2007, 11:31 PM
I think the # of people who can accompany a handicap guest should be limited, 6 is too many.

Well, if you think about how people travel to DL, it makes sense, I have a large family of 6-7 (+ a dog). But not everyone always travels with us, so it can be less but is usually more.

But when NORMAL people go to DL, let's say they have the 2 parents and 2.4 kids. Well, you have to think about Grandma who joins to help watch the kids, or the family friends that tag along. Non- So. Cal residents, generally travel in large packs to DL, at least that's what I've noticed. Six is a safe number it may seem large, but when my party has actually hit over 18, it's not so big. And I know many other HA people who also like to travel in packs, safety in numbers.

When parties get over the limit, they're generally sent through the regular line while the 'special' person and an assistant remain to wait at the boarding area. And that is how it should be done, but with smaller groups it makes more sense to just group them all together and not risk having the family seperated for long periods of time. It is Disneyland afterall... a family place. It really ticks me off though when I see these people in the wheelchairs they rent while they jump in and out of the chair. The one time I rented a chair (May 5th 05) I about died. I finally gave up and walked on the darn cast, my doc was not happy. :~D

geoffa
03-23-2007, 02:05 AM
I can only go back to my "take a numbered ticket" idea. Firstly it would stop the line jumpers and establish someone's position in the line when they have to go to the bathroom. People with disabilities / special needs have the opportunity to apply for the Guest Assistance card and the stated rules attached to that should be followed not abused. It is for the carer or guardian and family to behave in a correct manner.

If the girl mentioned in the opening of this thread was really "doing cartwheels" at the pool I feel I would have approached her and said in a loud voice something along the lines of "OH! I see your ankle is much better now. I trust you won't be pushing your way to the front of any more lines!" And if she did I'd make pretty sure all the people in the line knew about it.

Why on earth can't people play by the rules?

dragoonlady
03-23-2007, 06:52 AM
Several years ago I had my daughter and husband share a wheelchair. My mother was in her own. Husband suffers from arthurits, (which has gotten worse) daughter had a baseball injury. They could both walk some, but not all day. They took turns in the wheelchair so I wouldn't have to figure out how to push 3 at the same time. The one not riding was pushing, it worked out rather well. Both were worn out at the end of the day, but so was I.

I hadn't thought about what would have happened if a cast member had seen them changing riders.

This next trip we will have 1 in a wheelchair, and 2 using electric chairs. Not the same 2, the base ball injury is fine now. (I only will need to push one, Yeah)

Malcon10t
03-23-2007, 07:04 AM
I think the # of people who can accompany a handicap guest should be limited, 6 is too many.Actually, 6 is a good number. You want to keep families together. I have 4 kids. Just me and the kids will be 5. At Christmas, their dad and "Alice" (we don't know how to refer to her, she takes care of the kids over there, but she isn't his GF) are usually with us. This is our "core" group. So, just immediate family we are 7. This summer, our group will be somewhere around 15. When we are 15, 2 will wait in the HAC while the rest go thru the regular line.

So, lets say you have Mom and Dad, and 3 kids, one of whom is disabled, and the care giver. How should they be split up for this family trip?

Malcon10t
03-23-2007, 07:06 AM
Several years ago I had my daughter and husband share a wheelchair. My mother was in her own. Husband suffers from arthurits, (which has gotten worse) daughter had a baseball injury. They could both walk some, but not all day. They took turns in the wheelchair so I wouldn't have to figure out how to push 3 at the same time. The one not riding was pushing, it worked out rather well. Both were worn out at the end of the day, but so was I.

I hadn't thought about what would have happened if a cast member had seen them changing riders.

This next trip we will have 1 in a wheelchair, and 2 using electric chairs. Not the same 2, the base ball injury is fine now. (I only will need to push one, Yeah)We've done something similar. I have an injury to my knee. Last Christmas was the first time I had had to use an ECV. I found I HATED driving it up thru parts of Indy. I would have my son (18) drive it thru those areas.

disneyroxxx
03-23-2007, 07:18 AM
awhile ago my dad broke his leg before a trip to DL, and he had to use a wheelchair. We got to cut the lines of every ride! it was the best experience, except for my dad. when he went on splash mountain, his rear got soaked, and so for the rest of the day, he had to sit uncomfortably in that wheelchair as we dragged him to every ride we wanted to go on.

a couple of times while going to the exits, there would be other wheel chairs, and almost every time, we bumped into this group of teenage boys. Whenever they got off the ride, they would push the chair at a really high speed, and almost tip the chair over, with someone in it! then once they were not being watched by any cast members, they switched riders! my family didn't do much except glare constantly, but i hope that a cast member did catch them that day.

adriennek
03-23-2007, 08:35 AM
One of the other responders to the thread, a So.Cal. resident commented to have someone use a wheelchair, and said that they like to take their nephew because he has one.

Maybe this story will cheer some of you up (and I'll make You plural even if I'm quoting just one you. :) )


Now, keep in mind, my friends are among those who campaigned to City Hall for YEARS for the RIGHT to have lines HCA accessible!! They are wheelchair and special assistance device users who are THRILLED that lines are accessible!! This is a GOAL - Sure, who doesn't love a chance to not have to stand in a long line? But, everyone I know who uses a wheelchair or a special assistance device or requires a GAC - or has a family member who needs one - has said that they'd rather NOT need it than use it and they'd gladly trade places with people who "have" to wait in line. Wheelchair accessible lines are a great thing for people who 'have' to use wheelchairs (and as we've said before in this thread, for many attractions, this would be a wonderful change - if you've ever had to use the HCA line at Pirates, Space, or it's a small world during a crowded day, you know what I'm saying...)


A few years ago, "someone I know" (because I don't want to say how I know this person but I don't really want to call this person my friend,) had a niece who had injured her ankle. Another niece was in town from out-of-state. She told niece #2 - "Oh, let's go to the new Disney park because we can cut all the lines with niece #1 in a wheelchair!"

So they packed up and went to DCA.

They got there and were told that they didn't need to do anything special at all! They could go in any line with the wheelchair! Wheelchair lines were accessible!

"SIK" was pisssssssssssssssssed. She was royally annoyed that they had to stand in the regular lines!

It's an accommodation.

It's an accommodation that many people fought hard for. And it doesn't work at DCA or at many DLR rides, especially lines extensively refurbished or built new in the past decade or so.

Adrienne

Malcon10t
03-23-2007, 09:37 AM
But, everyone I know who uses a wheelchair or a special assistance device or requires a GAC - or has a family member who needs one - has said that they'd rather NOT need it than use it and they'd gladly trade places with people who "have" to wait in line. Wheelchair accessible lines are a great thing for people who 'have' to use wheelchairs (and as we've said before in this thread, for many attractions, this would be a wonderful change - if you've ever had to use the HCA line at Pirates, Space, or it's a small world during a crowded day, you know what I'm saying...)I would invite ANYONE to join me in the HCA queue for iasw. Even during Christmas, when the regular line looks HUGE, its rarely over 30 mins. The HCA queue is often an hour or longer. My kids usually indulge me once a trip (they are scared it will mentally scar the dogs to see iasw.) If the POTC line is at Pieces of 8 (where it usually is) figure its at least 45 mins, if it is down to the Royal Street Veranda, figure 90 mins. Space, the wait is usually as long, if not longer, but I can wait sitting, you move about 4 feet once every 5-8 mins, so I don't mind the extra wait here.



A few years ago, "someone I know" (because I don't want to say how I know this person but I don't really want to call this person my friend,) had a niece who had injured her ankle. Another niece was in town from out-of-state. She told niece #2 - "Oh, let's go to the new Disney park because we can cut all the lines with niece #1 in a wheelchair!"

So they packed up and went to DCA.

They got there and were told that they didn't need to do anything special at all! They could go in any line with the wheelchair! Wheelchair lines were accessible!

"SIK" was pisssssssssssssssssed. She was royally annoyed that they had to stand in the regular lines!Last trip, I witnessed something similar. On Matterhorn, everyone waits in the same queue til you reach the "Handicap Entrance", which is near the chalets. So, we got in line on the backside of the mountain, made our way til we got to the entrance, then signaled for the CM. She let the kids thru while I waited with the dog. (I doubt he will ever be tall enough...) So, I am standing there waiting and from the outside of this queue comes this woman about my age (mid 40s) pushing a chair with a kid in it and about 9 other people. She comes barging thru the line to the handicap entrance. The CM looks at me, looks at them and asks "Did you wait in the line?" The woman says "No, we have a wheelchair." The CM explains "The line is accessible. You wait in the line til you get to the gate, when you get here, we will board her (child in the chair) and 5 others, while the others can continue on in the line and ride together." The woman turns and walks away saying loud enough for me to hear "What was the use in renting this chair if they won't let us go to the front of the lines?" I think the way the old SAPs worked still stigmatize the way people look at the new system. I think the CMs are doing a better job at keeping the system honest.

adriennek
03-23-2007, 09:41 AM
The CM looks at me, looks at them and asks "Did you wait in the line?" The woman says "No, we have a wheelchair." The CM explains "The line is accessible. You wait in the line til you get to the gate, when you get here, we will board her (child in the chair) and 5 others, while the others can continue on in the line and ride together." The woman turns and walks away saying loud enough for me to hear "What was the use in renting this chair if they won't let us go to the front of the lines?" I think the way the old SAPs worked still stigmatize the way people look at the new system. I think the CMs are doing a better job at keeping the system honest.

Ahhh, that just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside, LOL. :) (Seriously - it's a great story!)

Adrienne

Tinker Bell
03-23-2007, 10:16 AM
One Idea on the large groups going in is maybe there are 2 People with cards. I am a family of 6 and will get the pass on my bad days. My Sister rolled her car years ago and has a card that will let her get one. She is a fam of 4. I prefer not getting the card and using it. I love fast passes and my hubby is really good about being a runner for us to have them. I bring my own wheel chair and my sis and I swap off. I like to walk a bit and see things from up higher when I can. (Seeing belly all day is not fun) But most of the time we do not go to the park all day.