I hijacked another thread but finally decided to start a new one. Here's the discussion so far:


My wife and I spent the holiday weekend in Las Vegas. It was our first time there in eight years, and much has changed! While we had a great time, we probably won't be back for another decade or so. The new resorts were spectacular to see, but we found ourselves bored after a couple of days, something that NEVER happens at WDW.

Anyway, while we were there I was thinking about the aborted Asian Resort and how well it would fit into the Las Vegas scene. This is one huge tourist destination that, except for ESPN Zone, Disney is missing out on.

We stayed at the JW Marriott resort (until recently the Regent) in Summerlin, a good 20 minutes from the strip. It is located in a rapidly developing upscale part of town with nice shops, golf courses, and restaurants springing up all over the place. I think Disney should find a similar location and build a huge new destination resort, and the Asian is an untapped idea in Vegas.

Just think of what they could do with such a theme! It seems to be one of the few untapped ideas left in the area. I could see various hotel buildings, themed restarants, even a large Asian-themed water park. This would do a booming business, even drawing gads of off-property guests.

By building off the strip they could maintain their family-friendly image, in fact I wouldn't even put a casino anywhere on property. They could couch it as part of the Disney Vacation Club, offering those reliable, money-soaked customers another great Disney location to visit. Like other DVC properties, of course, they could rent the rooms to non-members just like a regular resort.

Does anyone else think if I develop this idea fully that it could be my ticket into Imagineering?


Pony Sugrue
of Rathcullen Arms:
Yeah, I could see it now: "Disney's Las Vegas Adventure"

You could involve the cards from "Alice". You could ride the giant roulette wheel. There could be three giant ferris wheels inside of a massive slot machine. The ferris wheels could bring you over the top for a wonderful view of Vegas and then drop you down the "Coin Chute" roller coaster. All the Disney characters could walk around with tacky bowling shirts on too.

Actually, Las Vegas has been making efforts in the past few years to make itself a place "for the whole family" to visit.. without really saying it. There are roller coasters at so many resorts now. There is WET N' WILD. There are arcades everywhere. The place is turning into a sort of EPCOT too with "The Ventetian", "Paris", "New York", "the Luxor", and many other "geographically themed" hotels.

Disney's dilemma? It's not worth the seedy reputation if Disney were to offer gambling... and it's not worth having a presence in Vegas if you don't. Most of these other Hotels can offer great rates and amazing atmospheres because of poor saps who blow their life savings there. Without that redneck pocket-emptying, they couldn't offer those 4 dollar prime rib buffets. You think that DISNEY is ever gonna offer those kind of food prices? They pride themselves on the 7 dollar "burger and fries" combos (and that doesn't include a drink).

Of course, if they wanted to offer another theme park there away from the strip, then the kids could take a shuttle over to it while Mom and Dad were blowing their college fund at the tables... that might be something to consider... hmmmm


Mburk
Junior Member:
Hey, Iceman, I think it would work. Vegas would be a resort destination, like Vero Beach & Hilton Head, not a theme park. DVC members would go - stay at a Disney property for the quality and use their points, and have ready access to the strip if they want. Make it so!


Iceman
PI Aficionado:
I think pony described exactly why we haven't seen a bigger Disney presence in the city of sin--because the Disney name and brand image is more important than whatever profits they could soak out of building there. I just got to thinking while I was there that maybe the time is right for them to take that step, because they could do it while enhancing the brand rather than sullying it.

As pony pointed out, the city of Las Vegas and Clark County have been trying desperately to boost their image as a family-friendly destination. What better quantum leap could they take than to announce a huge new Disney development? I think a couple of pony's comments reflect Las Vegas stereotypes more than today's reality. The $4 prime rib buffet is pretty hard to find nowadays but we saw plenty of $85 prix fixe gourmet dinners. And internet special rates at the Bellagio, for example, are $159 per night, solidly in Disney territory. The hotel we stayed at is generally in the $200-$300 range. By catering to the middle and upper class (which Disney always has), they could easily make lots of money without an on-site casino. As pony said, they could run a shuttle to the strip (or build a monorail!) for people who want to experience what's there; our hotel did this as well.

Iceman, I think it would be a very intrigueing idea. I came up with some similiar thoughts after I visited Vegas last year. I loved my time in Vegas, and I didn't really do any gambling to speak of. Disney could do an incredible mega resort if they put their mind to it.

I hate to be a wet blanket, but I myself would prefer that Disney didn't build a resort in Vega, currently. I think that the turmoil (Justified or Unjustified) about it not being the proper place for Disney to set up shop could be damaging to the over all name.

Having said that, it doesn't mean that I don't think it's not a good idea, just that it may not be the right time for it.

If they did build the Asian resort, I certainly hope that they would have Tonga Toast in all of their restaurants 24 hours a day.

I think this was discussed (and I think you even put that idea up:D) and odds are they could make it work if they didn't put the disney name on the sign since they still might want to stay away from it... or not.:)

Maybe in the distant future it could be an idea, but I dont' think it would be a good one now. I personally don't think disney should build another park anywhere in the U.S. for at least 10 years. Attention needs to be paid to existing parks, not future parks. I mean, how many more guests would a 5th park in Orlando actually bring? All it would do is bring down attendance levels at the 4 other parks, and i dont think the overall number would increase by that much. Their resources should be used to make wdw the best it can be, and I think that would be best served by taking care of what it already has.

A couple of observations:

(1) I believe that at this time Las Vegas has pretty much returned to their "sin city" approach as opposed to their "family approach" of the late 80's/early 90's. Reasons for this conclusion:

(A) Current advertising campaign by Las Vegas/State of Nevada is "Live, Really Live" showing drinking, gambling, fancy shows and entertainment - none of which is aimed at the "family" audience.
A number of the hotels have brought back topless shows and some are now offering shows with full nudity (except for something akin to a velcro patch over the performer's private regions)

(B) Several new hotels are advertising and/or pursuing a policy of "adults only" in the hotels themselves - most certainly a policy that is anti-family rather than pro-family

(C) Notable failure of such family-oriented spots as MGM's Grand Adventures and lack of expansion or upgrade of other such spots at Adventuredome or Luxor, for example.

(2) Since Disney has pursued the idea of destination resorts to the max in the design of their WDW and DLR areas, why should they bother doing something in Vegas which is (A) contrary to their wholesome image and (B) does not allow them to control even a small portion of hotel rooms in the area?

Idea of Disney in Vegas just doesn't make sense ...............

Now, if NY/NY wanted to add a copy of Universal's Spiderman Ride to their place, I'm ready for that!

I agree with everyone's points here, pro and con. Please allow me to continue stirring the pot...

If Las Vegas is turning more towards adult entertainment, then maybe the time is REALLY right for Disney to step in and provide a unique family-friendly experience. They could virtually monopolize that market and, over the long run as the resort expands, create a viable multi-day destination completely separate from The Strip. This is one reason I suggested they build 20 or so miles away--close enough for people to visit the other attractions but far enough away to be in a separate Disney universe.

I'm not sure that coronamouseman's point 2B is really valid. Disney also does not control even a small portion of hotel rooms in the central Florida or southern California areas. I will admit that in Florida they have built a sizable destination that basically stands alone--lots of people go from the airport to WDW and never leave property until they fly home. With proper prior planning, couldn't the same thing happen in Las Vegas?

I don't hold any real "pride of authorship" on this idea, I really am just trying to flesh out the possibilities. Thanks for all the interest and thoughtful response!

Didin't we have this discussion already. when the alladin was up for sale?
as I recall I had some pretty funny observations about the type of themeing that Disney could do.

oh yeah I found it over in the lounge, here is my original "add"

"touchstone casinos presents.

Aladdin's and Jasmines magic casino. where everbody is a winner. come on and stay in our themed rooms... like the desert room filled with sand, or the cave of wonders, where you'll wonder where you are, but don't worry its just a basement. use your special casino dollars to play such exciting games as Jafar's craps, where you'll wonder if the dice are more loaded then you are. see Genie deal your cards in an exciting game of poker where the cards magically change before your eyes. have a drink of the sultans swizzle, and see Agrabah like you've never seen it before. and for after hours entertainment be sure to catch Jasmine in her all girl harem review. book your stay now and we'll throw in a free pass to Disny's California Adventure."

Iceman: To continue in the spirit of "stirring" .......

(1) Agree with you on the Florida lodging situation - Disney certainly does not control the majority of hotel rooms, but they do certainly have compelling and unique offerings and services which they can offer for their hotels thus making those hotels very much in demand and capable of charging much higher rates than those outside the resort (and I believe you made a point a month or two ago that many hotels make a very good profit at "normal rates" as opposed to the kind of "premium rates" WDW hotels charge

(2) From a marketing perspective, while Disney really be filling a void that exists in the Las Vegas visitor's range of activities? Do persons looking to gamble, eat good food, see fancy shows and stay up all night really need some form of family entertainment? Are adults even bringing the kids to Vegas anymore? Disney put Disneyland in Anaheim for a reason: it was cheap land right down the 5 Freeway from LA in an area that Stanford University research reports felt would be a growth area for the next 20 years ....... Disney put WDW in Orlando for many reasons: year-round weather, relatively cheap land, proximity to major East coast cities, ability to control the area around the park ......
It just seems like now that Disney has committed itself to the DLR resort concept their money will be spent there to improve that product

(3) Perhaps it actually helps Disney that Las Vegas is a sort of Anti-Disney - imagine the bored kids stuck in some Vegas gameroom or at the pool while their parents gamble who will get the following response from their "guilt-stricken" parents who have been drinking, gambling and whatever else during the trip: "OK, we'll go to someplace like WDW (or DLR) next trip so you kids can have some fun!

I think the closing of the Disney Quest in Chicago (don't get me started, it still hurts :crying: ) is a good indication of how Disney feels about building outside a 'home base'.

I head there were plans for 30 or so DQ's all over the country, but I guess the Chicago instance did not make as much money as they wanted.

I will admit that whenever I visited there, it was not the same. It seemed the CM's were folks that just quit McDonald's to work there. Not the same grinning CM a disney fan may have come used to being around in the Disney Parks.

So, I would think the only way it would have the same magic is if it were a secluded Disney destination. Like, even in DL, as small as it is you still can't see much of the outside of it when you are inside.

And, I don't think they would build this secluded destination there, because it would be too close to Disneyland. I think there are other places in the country they may want to tap before starting to build more that close to an existing park.

Just my thoughts.

Kevin Yee wrote a really nice article called "Disney and Las Vegas (http://www.mouseplanet.com/more/mm010731.htm)" in our More Mouse column a while back. I would recommend you read it.

Having just spent a couple of days in Vegas two weeks ago, my opinion is that Disney should NOT expand to Vegas. No matter how much glitz, glitter, entertainment and amusement you slather on top, the true bread and butter of Vegas if the gaming industry.

The $42 admission an adult pays to get into Disneyland is mere peanuts in Vegas. Heck, the average $300 a day that a family spends in a Disney resort is a handful of peanuts. Adults easily spend that much per day on gambling alone.

How is Disney expected to make money in this kind of environment, unless they open a full-fledged casino? Casinos do not allow minors to loiter in them. So you would have a Disney entertainment center that children can't participate in. How good is that?

I think it would be an extremely poor business decision. Disney would get eaten alive by the Vegas developers.

I read that article when it first came out and just took the time to read it again.

As he says in the article, "Casinos are profitable, but so too are the hotel, resort, and attraction businesses of a major Vegas destination - why should Disney not jump on that bandwagon?" Of course Kevin answers that question by saying the damage to Disney's family reputation would be too great.

The point of my thread was to revisit this issue. Is the time right NOW to do this? Could it be in the future? Several people have mentioned that the casinos are where the money is made in Vegas--let's step outside that box for a moment and consider whether or not Disney could be profitable with a whole new business model for the area. As I've repeatedly stated (read the whole thread before posting, Lani! ;) ), I think this resort should NOT have a casino.

Maybe I'm just crazy, this is a bad idea, and it will never happen. Then again, maybe those are the same kinds of things people told Walt before he broke ground in Anaheim...

I heard they are getting their feet wet in Vegas with and ESPN Zone. They'll see how that works and then consider other options in Sin City. Forgot where I heard/read that...

Just on a side note, disneyquest was not owned by disney when there were 2. Then when they went under the chicago one closed and the one at WDW (I believe) went under the ownership of disney.:)

sat97: I don't think an ESPN Sports Zone qualifies as a "Disney" presence - ESPN is its own "brand name" and why wouldn't you have a sports-oriented restaurant/bar/gameroom in a town with sports books and other sports bars/establishments like the AllStar Sports on the strip?

That's simply applying a formula that has already worked in Florida, California, Washington DC, New York and probably other places soon..........

My feeling is that Disney could certainly provide some entertainment of some kind - why not a ride or two or even a show - if Lion King is doing so well in New York and LA , then wouldn't it do well in Vegas? Wouldn't some hotel like Mandalay Bay want the Mt. Prometheus-based attractions from TDS in their backyard as part of the semi-waterpark, semi-Sea World aquarium entertainment complex they have created (only, of course, if they had the space and Disney felt they weren't going to use those rides elsewhere). Highly unlikely of course but at least in the spirit of how this thread got started .............

Thanks for the creative ideas, corona!

Actually, Nigel, DisneyQuest has always been owned by Disney. It fell under the Disney Regional Entertainment arm of the company, but as you pointed out, once the Chicago location closed the Orlando location moved to the Theme Parks division.

hi everyone,

We just came back from a trip to Las Vegas (3 nights) and then drove to Anaheim for 5 nights at Disneyland.

It was a lot of fun, but very different fun, as a number of people have pointed out. I'd agree, Las Vegas (which I'd never visited before) is a sin city , not much for kids to do.

We had a car, but I thought it would have been fun to do the trip by bus, maybe Walt Disney Travel Company should work on 'two city packages' (I thought they had some of those a few years ago, when I've checked their website recently, it all seems to be in the LA area).

I'd like to campaign for a Disneyland North in Canada! As a Canadian, while I love visiting the USA, our weakened dollar makes the trip pretty expensive.

cheers, patricia

Originally posted by Iceman
Thanks for the creative ideas, corona!

Actually, Nigel, DisneyQuest has always been owned by Disney. It fell under the Disney Regional Entertainment arm of the company, but as you pointed out, once the Chicago location closed the Orlando location moved to the Theme Parks division.

Oh.... I was so close.:D

Well I believe ESPN is also part of the disney family with E! and a bunch of other networks.:D But I don't know if they have interest in ESPN zone like they do in House of Blues (20%)

ESPN Zone is wholly owned and operated by Disney--that's the one successful venture of the Regional Entertainment folks. I wasn't aware, however, that they have a 20% interest in House of Blues! It's amazing the things that are left out of the annual reports and the investor relations website!

They are just so many areas where Disney are missing out on.

Las Vegas is such an ideal place.Perfect location warm weather so many theming ideas.I would love to see a fantasmic style lagoon in front of a Disney resort with nightly shows of fantasmic.It would just rule unlike that over hyped pirates show.

I also find it interesting that most of Disneyland California guest are locals.If Disney can get 12 million locals to come though its gates.Then just imagine how much money could be made from building Disney parks in other states.

Originally posted by Iceman
I wasn't aware, however, that they have a 20% interest in House of Blues! It's amazing the things that are left out of the annual reports and the investor relations website!

I was surprised where I found it, a trivia book.:D But it would explain why the HOB at WDW gets one of the better spots on the west side.:D

It would also explain why they built another one so close to the Sunset Strip location. For that matter, it explains why they have one at BOTH Downtown Disneys! I wonder if Disney has a stake in Rainforest Cafe too...

I bet they do since they have one at the gate of AK and then a large icon one at DTD (I still think it looks like a treestump from far away :D), possibly also in Planet Hollywood since that one is also near a stop.

I don't think Disney would dare enter the Vegas market. With the beautiful, intensively themed resports being built in Las Vegas, the cost-cutting Disney of today wouldn't be willing to spend the money to build something that could compete.

They might take a stab at it, but I doubt they would put their name on it unless it became a huge sucess.:) Heck for all we know they could be leasing out some of their artists for the hotels.:D