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View Full Version : Top 20 Orange County Business Stories - #6, DCA is a Flop - OC Register, 9/3/06



Darkbeer
09-03-2006, 10:18 PM
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/money/homepage/article_1263295.php




6. California Adventure

Disneyland's second gate was always going to suffer an inferiority complex. Built during lean times in Disney's checkered corporate past, California Adventure was doomed to a slow start from opening day in 2001. The gamble that atmosphere and dining would mask a shortage of rides was a flop. Still, surrounding improvements to the neighborhood that Disney won as part of its California Adventure investment – most notably the Downtown Disney shopping district between the two parks – reinforced Anaheim's stature as a tourism giant.

Another Dimension
09-04-2006, 02:02 AM
Meh... DCA is fun and growing and changing and is still fun anyway.

And has been from day 1.


If Disney or the OC Register :rolleyes: don't like the park, do something about it so it becomes trendy or H:rolleyes:t Topic with a LIM coaster, until then I'll be hanging there as much as I do at DL.
Sometimes more, on different days.


I don't expect perfection from DCA, because as awesome as the place is, I've never gotten perfection from DL.

ralfrick
09-04-2006, 08:27 AM
Meh... DCA is fun and growing and changing and is still fun anyway.

And has been from day 1.

And this is relavent to a story about business and money because............?

Cheers.

momtoo2
09-04-2006, 09:39 AM
DCA was doomed in some respects because of "Disney" purists so to speak. Those that grew up going to Disneyland and love because of the feeling it evokes, or memories it brings were never going to fall in love with DCA that way.
Personally I like DCA...my children also like it. But it will never be Disneyland and I venture to say any park they put next to Disneyland would have come up against the same fate as DCA. As far as business goes I know we visit Disneyland more with the DCA park as a part of it then we would if it were not a part of the Resort area. With the addition of DCA and DD the DLR becomes a vacation not a day at Disneyland as we make our way down to San Diego.

Bytebear
09-04-2006, 10:00 AM
I am sure it has been discussed ad nausium, but I think there are three reasons for the failure. 1) not enough rides, and only 4 E ticket rides. And ToT was not the saviour they wanted, as it never has a line. Their only true success was Soarin' 2) californians and visitors dont want to visit "pretend" california in the real place. Same think for the hollywood lot (why visit fake hollywood when you have the real think an hour away. 3) no transportation, no train or monorail. No omnibus, or anything.

Solution: Make the Hollywood backlot more like MGM and give it a vintage 40s theme, so folks can see old hollywood. add a brown derby, get some vintage charagers like Lucille Ball or Cary Grant. and add way more dark rides, like a fun house under the roller coaster. Add a water show in the lagoon. If they can do it in Vegas, I am sure they can do it better at DCA.

HydroGuy
09-04-2006, 10:58 AM
I am sure it has been discussed ad nausium, but I think there are three reasons for the failure. 1) not enough rides, and only 4 E ticket rides. And ToT was not the saviour they wanted, as it never has a line. Their only true success was Soarin' I am not sure ride quantity or E-ticket quantity is the issue. Here is a comparison of the DLR and WDW parks:

WDW - 72
DLR - 66

Here is how they break down:

MK - 32
Epcot - 19
MGM - 10
AK - 11

DL - 41
DCA - 25

It does require some interpretation what is and is not a ride. Here is my list:

WDW - http://hydroguy.smugmug.com/gallery/1819958/1/90919696
DLR - http://hydroguy.smugmug.com/gallery/1819958/1/90919695

Some would argue that DCA's rides are of lower quality, and they may be right - although the WDW parks have a number of low quality rides as well.

What about E-Tickets? Well, this also requires interpretation. Here is a list that can be debated forever I am sure:

MK - 5
Epcot - 3
MGM - 2
AK - 4

DL - 7
DCA - 4

Here is my breakdown of the E-tickets:

MK - 5
SpaceMtn
Splash
BTMRR
POTC
HM

Epcot - 3
Soarin
Test Track
Mission Space

MGM - 2
ToT
RnR

AK - 4
Expedition Everest
Kilimanjaro Safari
Kali RR
Dinosaur

DL - 7
SpaceMtn
Splash
BTMRR
POTC
HM
Indy
Matterhorn

DCA - 4
Soarin
CA Screamin
GRR
ToT

And note that AK attendance was at 8+ million per year before Expedition Everest - so it had 3 E-tickets for a number of years and attendance exceeded DCA by a lot.

ErikBsandiego
09-04-2006, 08:58 PM
Problem with DCA - Lack of dark rides.....

IMHO, one of the principle thing that makes disney stand out from other theme parks is the high quality dark rides or "semi" dark rides (I put splash in that category). With innovative ride technology (omni mover, indoor boat ride) and animatronics it provides experiences you can not find ANYWHERE else.

DCA suffers because it has a total of _two_ true dark rides (TOT, monsters) and 1 "semi" dark ride (soaring). BIG problem.

THe rumored addition of midway madness will help but they really need to add at least 2 more dark rides after that.

Another Dimension
09-05-2006, 11:52 AM
And this is relavent to a story about business and money because............?

Cheers.


It was far more relevant to the topic that your post. Eh?!? :p

Ya don't just toss anything out on a message board and expect no one to respond, or ALL the opinions to echo your own. Eh?!?

Exactly.



2) californians and visitors dont want to visit "pretend" california in the real place.

People, from somewhere, have used this overall incorrect, blanket statement for YEARS now.

MY address and dozens of my friends addresses all say CALIFORNIA as part of them, and enatly everyone I know loves California and California Adventure. It's not a documentary or a museum or a non-fiction novel or a text book. It's a 5 year old themed amusement park. Get over the ignorant illusion it's supposed to be CALIFORNIA, replace California, make people never want to visit the rest of California, replace California.... or equal, better or replace DISNEYLAND.
It's a companion, NOT a competitor, an enemy or a perceived replacement. The competition AKA stupid war between these two parks some people think exists is pathetic.

It's a Disney park, it's a themed amusement park and it's been a FUN PLACE for SOME PEOPLE from DAY ONE.
You chronic haters and other mind controil thru sheer overkill repetition are just going to have to accept that. Not everyone agrees with you. Get used to it.

Both parks are fun. Both parks could be priced more logically for what they offer. Both parks have fans, yes GASP, even fans that live in California. It's quick sickening for people from millions of other places to repeatedly and incorrectly state that people from California do not like or every visit DCA or hate the place because it's themed. That fantasy is so incorrect and yet so rpeatedly psysobabbled it's sad to think so gullible people actually believe it.

California resident for several decades, been many other places and to many other amusement and theme parks, I LOVE DCA. That is 100% fact.

Everyone saying all Californias hate DCA is forever more WRONG.

But I'm sure that won't stop the chronic train of falsehoods some people preach like a Gospel to everyone who is uninformed, will listen to anyone who acts like they know more or refuses to reason for themselves or admit to living in California and actually having fun at a fun place.

Never being honest to myself sure would lead to an unhappy life. For others it's the daily daily.

Darkbeer
09-05-2006, 10:28 PM
First off, the OC Register reporter talked about the 20 most "interesting" (to him) stories over the last 20 years, and he rated the problems with DCA as the 6th most interesting story in the past 2 decades....

As for why DCA is a business failure, here is something I wrote about 2 years ago...

Why is Disney's California Adventure a failure?

We can talk about the original attractions, the attractions that were added or removed.....

But really, if you talk to Disney Managment, why do they feel that it is a failure, and not just for DCA, but also for Disneyland Park.....

And the answer is tickets sold, but not the number of tickets sold......

Let's go back to December 2000, when DCA was still under construction, and Disneyland tickets cost $43 (adults)... they were $41 in early 2000, but were raised in November...

Also in November 2000, they started to sell the new 2-park Annual Passes, mainly to those who already had a Disneyland Annual Pass, allowing the upgrading.... a Premium 2 park AP was $100 more than a Disneyland Park only AP...

But in January 2001 they stopped selling Annual Passes to anyone, due to the expected crowds that would should up at DCA's door.

The ONLY people who could parkhop were guests staying at one of the 3 owned Disney hotels.

Almost everybody was expected to buy a Full Price ticket, or a slightly discounted multi-day ticket, but you would have to decide prior to use which park you would visit that day...

The Execs talking about how they would have to send the DCA overflow over to Disneyland. Go back and find the January 14th, 2001 Los Angeles Times article titled "The Most Jam-Packed Theme Park on Earth?; Attracting visitors won't be a problem for Disney's soon-to-open California Adventure. But coping with the expected hordes may be another matter" written by E. Scott Reckard. The article states that senior Disney officials that there will be days that DCA will have to turn patrons away.

George Kalogridis, then senior vice president of Disney operations in Anaheim is quoted in the article as saying ""Come early in the day or come later, after the park clears out again, hopefully, with Disneyland right across the esplanade and Downtown Disney right there, we won't have to turn people away from the resort."

This is also the news article that talked about company projections showing that DCA would get about 7 million visitors a year. Barry Braverman stated that "Disney Imagineers worked backward from the projected attendance level of 7 million a year"

DCA was supposed to draw full price admission, and get up to 30,000, if not a bit more than that daily in the summer and weekends.... While not the capacity of Disneyland, it was still supposed to bring in a lot of admission dollars....

What happened, first they started to sell ParkHoppers to the Good Neighbor Hotels, then to anyone, brought back the AP's.... offered a MAJOR discount just 4 months after opening (One Adult and One Kid for just $33, instead of the $76 they wanted when the park opened, that was less than 1/2 the price...)

Then in the fall, they dropped the price of the 2 park AP's to the DL only price, and eliminated the DL only AP, basically giving DCA for free to AP holders..... Yesterday, a 2-park Premium was still cheaper than what it cost when they went on sell in November of 2000 ($279 vs $299), now with the price increase the Premium AP is $329, or just a $30 increase in about 4 years.

Then we had all the 2 for one promotions, heck for a 16 month period from January 2003 thru April of 2004, 13 months offered the "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for free" to Southern California and Baja California residents...

Now we have the 5 days for the price of 3 (plus 6 for 4, etc.) ParkHoppers on sale for the last 2 years straight (plus previous times)....

While a few more folks have come to the DLR, and some have bought an additional day or two in a hotel (one of 3 Disney owned, or at a Good Neighbor location...) BUT...

If you look at the statistic of...

"Amount paid per person, per day to enter the park", that dollar amount has gone DOWN, which has hurt BOTH parks.....

And that is probably the biggest failure of DCA in the eyes of TDA....

Darkbeer
09-05-2006, 10:32 PM
Jim Hill interviewed a WDI CM back in 2001...




“You see what I’m saying here, Jim? The Walt Disney Company relies on regular visits from Southern California residents in order to keep attendance levels high at the Disneyland Resort. So what does Disney do when it tries to turn Anaheim into a destination resort? It builds a California-themed theme park – a place with limited appeal to SoCal residents. DCA – at least in its original incarnation – was doomed, Jim. Virtually from the moment that Disneyland opened its preview center.”

“And we tried to warn them, Jim. We argued ‘til we were blue in the face. But the suits wouldn’t listen to us. They just seemed to think that giving Southern Californians the opportunity to eat Wolfgang Puck’s pizza while looking out at the lights of Paradise Pier was going to be enough to put that place over the top. That the locals would have no choice but to love DCA.”

Darkbeer
09-05-2006, 10:35 PM
And here is this great line from the "Unofficial Guide to Disneyland" by Bob Sehlinger...







From a competitive perspective, Disney's California Adventure is an underwhelming shot at Disney's three Southern California competitors. The Hollywood section of DCA take a hopeful poke at Universal Studios Hollywood, while Paradise Pier offers midway rides a la Six Flags Magic Mountain. Finally, the whole California theme has for years been the eminent domain of Knott's Berry Farm. In short, there's not much originality in DCA, only Disney's now-redundant mantra that "whatever they can do, we can do better".

Even if the park was called Disney's Slag Heap, the faithful would turn out en masse.

Darkbeer
09-05-2006, 10:46 PM
And another post of mine from July of 2001...

I think a lot of the problem was that Disney made us think that DCA was better than, if not the same as DL. The marketing and the pricing was the biggest mistake!!!

I think most of us have enough brains to figure out that a new park was not going to have as many rides, and that they were trying to make the park different than DL.

The second problem was that while we didn't expect as many rides/attractions as DL, we figured that at least a few would be as good as what we found at DL. That was the second biggest mistake.

Soarin' over California is the best "new" type of ride, and they even made the mistake of not protecting the film from scratches and dust....

But they ended up with overkill with the movie rides/attractions. And even then, they didn't advance, if anything, they went backwards with Golden Dreams.

The first movie ride at Disneyland was Rocket to the Moon, they took simple effects (Seats that used air to inflate/deflate) plus an advanced sound system (at the time) to simulate flight. Also, Circle-Vision 360 was an unique effect. While the original park had the Main Street Cinema and Fantasyland theatre. (Both showing Disney films), they were not main attractions. Star Tours back in the 70's brought in the simulator (Not an original idea, but was the best when it premiered). Also, the 3-D theatre, starting with the Kodak film, then Captain EO were clever, and Honey... added some other effects, like the mice. Now, Muppet Vision and Tough to be a bug are very similar to Honey... (and made around the same time).

So, when we found out about a new park, we expect "progress" and something better than the past. If you look at DCA's movies, the animation movie belongs there, how else do you tell the story about making movies. Muppet-Vision and Tough to be a bug are "retreads", nice extras, but not "new and exciting". As I said earlier, Soarin's new type of simulation was an improvement. On the other hand, Golden Dreams could have been Circle-Vision, or something else, but ended up just being a three screen movie, like something you would have in a museum.

Nobody expected to find "Disneyland 2" across the street from Disneyland, but with a new park, we expected NEW things.....

Darkbeer
09-05-2006, 10:49 PM
And since we are looking back...

Here is what Roy Disney and Stanley Gold said in a SEC filing from February, 2004. (Public Domain quote)





DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE AND DISNEY STUDIOS PARIS

With a strategy put together by the schemers to transform single-park sites into multi-day destination resorts (and a price tag of well over $1 Billion) Disney's California Adventure was destined to failure before ground was broken.

Frightened by the economics of EuroDisney and misinterpreting the reasons for its failure, the "numbers guys" assigned an investment cap to DCA's construction. Rather than innovating and designing the Park from the bottom-up based upon what the consumer would expect for the price of admission, DCA was designed from the top-down based on what the spreadsheets said was required to hit a return figure that has never materialized.

The continued suppression of innovation - fixing the off the shelf rides - is likely as the schemers desperately try to avoid any financial write-offs at this time. DCA has failed and will never come close to generating the financial return the planners forecast.

Why? Consumers are not willing to pay the same admission price for a smaller and subjectively less-special park. The excessive discounting in the last twelve months clearly supports that the consumer knows what DCA is worth. If only the schemers had listened in the first place.

By contrast, Oriental Land Company financed and opened the innovative and luxurious Tokyo DisneySea during the same period. Its' marvelsquickly became a major draw even in a flat Japanese economy. Anaheim should have been so lucky.

The insistence on avoiding reality in Anaheim led to Disney Studios Paris - another "second gate" failure akin to DCA. Conceived on an even smaller creative scale and, it too, heavily relied on recycled product. In both instances, planners mistakenly assumed that Disney name alone would move the product regardless of the quality of its content.

We fear Hong Kong Disneyland will be similarly doomed to mediocrity. Although the schemers negotiated a very favorable deal from the local government, there will not be many rides at the new Park on opening day, and those that do open will be recycled attractions from Anaheim and Orlando. The "half-park" scheme remains in effect despite two enormous failures.

Darkbeer
09-05-2006, 10:51 PM
And here is a recent quote from Doug Marsh, a main contributor of LaughingPlace.com...




The cynicism was/is that by using "California" as a theme, that guests (and their well stuffed wallets) would find no reason to leave the confines of the Disneyland Resort during their multi-day visit. Bear in mind that the entire business purpose of the expansion was to entice multi-day visitors. That the notion that people would accept a simulation of California over the actual item was not only seriously considered, but given a green light was, in my opinion, the fatal flaw that started this whole enterprise off in the wrong direction. It is the height of cynicism to believe sincerely that the public would believe that DCA was somehow an acceptable substitute for the very real experiences lying just outside its gates. It assumes that the public is not just gullible, but deserves to be tricked.

annieb727
09-05-2006, 10:51 PM
darkbeer...that's some great information...I remember going in early 2001 (March)...and we got an AP...but it was so much more expensive to get DCA added on, so we didn't - we just did the one park option.

We ended up back at DL end of November that year as we moved across the country to Alabama (military move) - we were able to add on DCA then for only $10 each...we were really surprised at the time. but it makes a lot of sense after reading that information

Darkbeer
09-05-2006, 10:59 PM
http://thedisneyblog.typepad.com/tdb/2006/02/california_adve.html




A second and third gate at Disneyland can be made to work. This first try hasn't been successful. The bandaid solutions have not been working. Turning Disneyland into a 5-6 day destination resort is doable, but you can't forget about the locals in the process. It was insulting to build a 'California' themed park and then expect Californians to provide the attendance base. Someone needs to show some fortitude and admit that fact so we all can move on and get the theme park that is deserving of being located next to Walt's original Magic Kingdom - Disneyland.


*Note: I refuse to call the park by it's full name. I feel the park was done on the cheap, quality was sacrificed, bad themeing choices were made, and deliberatly violated many of the golden rules Walt wanted his parks to follow. So until those problems are fixed, no Disney for California Adventure from me.

Darkbeer
09-05-2006, 11:20 PM
And by the way, folks can like DCA...

Heck, I go there (But much prefer Disneyland).... But I prefer a day at SFMM, USH , Knott's or SeaWorld San Diego, besides other parks outside the state (such as Cedar Fair, IOA, etc....) than DCA.

The point of the original post (IMHO) is that DCA is a flop because it FAILED to live up to the original projections (such as full priced tickets, and limited AP's)... Instead, Disney had to make a bunch of MAJOR shifts to help drive attendance to about 5 million, which is still a lot less than they hoped for at full price....

Heck, let's go back to what Disney's chief executive officer, Robert Iger went on record during the company's annual stockholder meeting on March 10th, 2006, when someone asked about a potential third park being built in Anaheim. "We're still working to assure the second gate is successful", Iger said, referring to California Adventure. "In the spirit of candor, we have been challenged."

Plain and simple, the park has not performed as expected.....

ralfrick
09-06-2006, 07:53 AM
It was far more relevant to the topic that your post. Eh?!? :p

Ya don't just toss anything out on a message board and expect no one to respond, or ALL the opinions to echo your own. Eh?!?

Exactly.




No, I expected an answer. I think it's a legitimate question. The first post was about a news story that spoke of the disappointment DCA has been from a financial viewpoint, and there was a reply about your personally liking DCA. I don't see a connection, and still don't. A LOT of things I've liked over the years have been failures from a business point of view. I think DCA has some great individual elements but is flawed as a whole; however, that doesn't have anything to do with how it's performed financially, either. I do know I'm not willing to nit pick over tiny details about this.

Moving on, it's hard to say what would be an E Ticket now, especially with parks that came into existence after the demise of tickets. However, at the end of the ticket era in DL, an E was also required for Small World, Jungle Cruise, Tiki Room and Country Bears, so presumeably that would have been the case at the MK as well.

Cheers.

Dory
09-06-2006, 11:20 AM
DCA is ok but I don't understand alot of the business decisions related to the park. For example, they invest all this money to light up DCA at night (and i admit it looks cool in the dark especially California Screamin) but during the summer its only dark for about an hour before the park closes? Why don't they leave the park open longer so people can enjoy the park's atmosphere at night?

IMO they should also quit selling single park admission tickets and lower the price for park hoppers. Then they could build a permanent walkway (or Monorail type train) to transport people between DCA and Disneyland. This way people don't have to leave and reenter one park to get to the other which can be majorly annoying alot of times.

Also, this is my crazy idea but since Fantasmic has become so popular, they should build a permanent venue for it over in DCA somewhere. A place with bleachers or seats so people don't have to crowd around Tom Sawyer Island anymore. Sure the island and the ship wouldn't be part of Fantasmic anymore but they could make the show even better if it had a permanent venue actually built for the show.

It would be cool if they also built a new improved version of Star Tours over in the Hollywood area of DCA. Star Tours in Disneyland is becoming way too obsolete and dated now.

Also, quit building rides like Monster Inc which imo are a complete waste of money since they aren't grounbreaking at all. They couldn've made that ride way better if they had invested more thought and money to make the ride something more than just another regular ride.

Bytebear
09-06-2006, 12:04 PM
Also, this is my crazy idea but since Fantasmic has become so popular, they should build a permanent venue for it over in DCA somewhere. A place with bleachers or seats so people don't have to crowd around Tom Sawyer Island anymore. Sure the island and the ship wouldn't be part of Fantasmic anymore but they could make the show even better if it had a permanent venue actually built for the show.

Actually, the park has bleacher seating facing the Sun Wheel across the water. It was designed for a fireworks water show that never came to be. They even had a perminant launching platform in the water that was removed some time ago. Here is the Google Map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=61.070016,90.175781&q=disneyland&ie=UTF8&z=19&ll=33.805542,-117.921407&spn=0.000994,0.001376&t=k&om=1

I have said before: if the Bellagio in Las Vegas can do it, Disney can do it better. After all, Fantasmic was inspired by the Treasure Island show in Las Vegas!

wardkimballfan
09-06-2006, 03:45 PM
Also, this is my crazy idea but since Fantasmic has become so popular, they should build a permanent venue for it over in DCA somewhere. A place with bleachers or seats so people don't have to crowd around Tom Sawyer Island anymore. Sure the island and the ship wouldn't be part of Fantasmic anymore but they could make the show even better if it had a permanent venue actually built for the show.

It would be cool if they also built a new improved version of Star Tours over in the Hollywood area of DCA. Star Tours in Disneyland is becoming way too obsolete and dated now.I agree wholeheartedly with both of these ideas, neither of which is crazy.

In fact, I'd go even further and suggest that DCA expand the Hollywood theme to encompass the entire park (Disney's Hollywood Adventure, if you will). This would allow for Fantasmic (which is really just a tribute to Disney animation), provide an opportunity for CircleVision 360 to return (perhaps as a part of the next level of Soarin'), and possibly even a dual-entrance maximized Indy ride (with two stories) that could link the two parks.

Plus, moving Star Tours over to the new park would free up space in Tomorrowland, perhaps for the return of an technologically updated version of Adventure Thru Inner Space (which, thematically speaking, never really became outdated).

tod
09-06-2006, 05:29 PM
While the original park had the Main Street Cinema and Fantasyland theatre. (Both showing Disney films), they were not main attractions.

I don't want to sound disagreeable, but the Main Street Cinema showed Keystone Kops, The Great Train Robbery and Walt's old Laugh-O-Grams before The New Guys mandated that everything hadda be "Disney" and they replaced the real black-and-white silent pictures with silent runnings of black-and-white prints of Technicolor shorts like Mickey's Polo Team.

This was about 1984-1985, when the price hikes and seven-day operation began at Disneyland.

--t

disneyhound
09-06-2006, 06:46 PM
I took my daughter to Disneyland for the first time back in 2001. I was not a member of this or any other forum devoted to Disneyland. The first I heard of DCA was the day I booked our vacation on Disneys website. Disney indicated that the new park was opening in February. When we got to the hotel, we were told that DCA was in fact opened for a preview. On our third day, we wandered over to DCA. We enjoyed a lot of the park, thought it was a nice add-on. We have gone back every year, still enjoy DL far more than DCA, but we like both parks!