The new menu for Cafe Orleans

[olegc]

Disney management "sells out" every time they put profit ahead of the quality of the park. For example, when they refuse to pay decent wages even to long-term employees, reducing the pool of applicatns and thus the quality of service. Or when they cut back on maintenance. Or when they put in new rides that are cheaply put together with cardboard cutouts instead of "Disney Magic". There is nothing wrong with making a profit or with charging a premium for a high quality product. But when a company that is supposed to run the best amusement park in the world puts shareholder profit and management bonuses above the quality of the product, then their reputation suffers, and eventually their profit suffers. It may take a while to destroy a brand, but if enough people visit and have negative interactions with cast members, or see too much garbage, or think that the rides are overrated, then it will happen. Disneyland will go from being "the happiest place on earth" to being "the most overpriced tourist trap on earth".

And you must remember - a lot of this commentary is based on SPECULATION that nothing else will change but the prices have gone up. When I was a kid we never at eat the BB because it was so much more than other food in the park. And it required a much more "air" about eating inside this fine establishment. And over the years more and more people have been able to get in and sample the wares. Well, it's I guess it's just time to separate the regular from the special again (and yes, all of disneyland is special, but there are degrees).

Let's wait on labelling the park's management until after the BB is open. Then if what you say above is true you can flame me all day. I think this is the beginning of plus-ing the food selections in the park - similar to what you can find at WDW in some places. I think they will probably introduce the meal plan soon as well (soon being 1 to 2 years).

Either way - I guess many of us have been jaded by the last 10 years or so and the direction of management (particularly foods), CM Matt and Greg have shown a keen eye for what has been needed in the park - but they are bound to have hiccups along the way. This may turn out to be one of them. So they will adjust and move on.. It's what the market will bear.

[DianeM]

This is what I'm hoping for. If DL just raises the prices and doesn't increase the quality of the experience, then they are "selling out", but if they actually are trying to set up Cafe Orleans as a regular eating establishment while BB becomes a "special occasion" experience, then I'm all for it. We'll know when the BB opens again. The dining experience in a lot of the little nooks in which they have placed tables is not very good. If they still have tables by the service doors, then that pretty much tells me everything I need to know. BB is dead, and I'm not going to risk paying $30/person for a miserable dining experience. If they actually improve the experience, then they are simply trying to make BB into the more exclusive restaurant it was in the past, instead of just trying to squeeze every dollar possible from the suckers, er, guests. Needless to say, I'm hoping for the latter. Look how many complaints there were about BB at the old prices. Can you imagine how people will feel if they pay the new prices for that kind of experience? Cheated. DL has every right to charge for the high quality experience it provides. But it will cost them in the long run if people start spreading the word that it's way to highly priced for what you get.


And you must remember - a lot of this commentary is based on SPECULATION that nothing else will change but the prices have gone up. When I was a kid we never at eat the BB because it was so much more than other food in the park. And it required a much more "air" about eating inside this fine establishment. And over the years more and more people have been able to get in and sample the wares. Well, it's I guess it's just time to separate the regular from the special again (and yes, all of disneyland is special, but there are degrees).

[Nancy]

Add the side of pommes frittes, and I'll join you. Hey - maybe we can split it w/o the $5 charge!

AVP


$5 just to get one extra plate. What's next, charging to refill your water!
What if you don't tell them you want to split it and share the plate?

[cstephens]

Disney management "sells out" every time they put profit ahead of the quality of the park. For example, when they refuse to pay decent wages even to long-term employees, reducing the pool of applicatns and thus the quality of service. Or when they cut back on maintenance. Or when they put in new rides that are cheaply put together with cardboard cutouts instead of "Disney Magic".

According to your logic, Disney should never make a profit, or they should only be making a very minimal profit, because every dollar that comes in that doesn't go to actual operating costs could potentially be put into making the park better rather than being just profit. I do find it slightly amusing, though, that a commercial company is accused of "selling out".

As far as decent wages, "decent" is a relative term. I'll admit to being puzzled by the people who complain that a Disneyland salary isn't enough to support a family of four. I guess I've never viewed a frontline CM salary to be more than a supplemental or temp job. There are lots of jobs that don't pay a "living wage". I count Disneyland in that group.

Cutting back on necessary maintenance is not selling out. It's irresponsible and dangerous and stupid.

As far as rides with cheap, cardboard cutouts, I guess that's a matter of opinion. Quite a few things in the Fantasyland dark rides could be put in that category, but those don't seem to bother anyone. And it also appears that many people think that the only things that should be added to the park are e-tickets. I'm not of that opinion. I can see the charm of non-e-tickets.

Is the proposed price increase surprising? Yep. Is it justified? Don't know and won't know until I go. Can people who don't agree with it refuse to go? Yep. Will some people go and still think it's worth it? Probably.

[DianeM]

Not really. Actually, as I wrote, "DL has every right to charge for the high quality experience it provides. ". I don't have a problem with them charging for their premium services, and I don't have a problem with them making a profit. I DO have a problem with them being cheap with attractions and staff payments.

According to your logic, people should work for DL in temporary positions, but never expect to make enough to make a living at it. That's not going to result in a core staff of quality, experienced people who can make the guest experience memorable. It's going to result in a staff of teenagers and people who aren't qualified for any other jobs because of lack of talent or temperment. I ran into my first rude DL employee last trip, and I didn't like it. DL is supposed to be clean and filled with people who are friendly to a fault.

To me at least, Disneyland is more than just a "commercial company". They certainly promote it as more than just a "product". They are selling "Magic". ("Remember the Magic", "Experience the Magic"). I don't mind paying for the magic, but when I spend money and find that they haven't produced the "Magic" they advertised, I feel resentful instead of happy.

As for cardboard cutout rides - Have you ridden Winnie the Pooh? It's no better than a cheap carnival kiddie ride. It's below the usual DL standards, and I can't believe that anybody over 3 would ride it twice. Walt Disney would never have approved such a pitiful ride, given today's technology. From what I've seen, the new Monster's Inc ride isn't any better, although all I've seen is a video, so I suppose there might be some magic in there somewhere. It isn't about thrill rides. I love the Buzz Lightyear ride, and I'm not even a Buzz lightyear fan. I'd love a new ride that could compare with Peter Pan or Snow White, but a few brightly painted cardboard cutouts in a tunnel are demeaning to what Walt Disney intended for the park. They cheapen the experience. That is what I mean by "selling out". Cheapening the Disney experience while charging higher and higher prices and pocketing the difference between what people are paying for "Magic" and what you are saving by providing a cheap imitation.

Of course companies should make a profit. I never said they shouldn't. It would be foolish to expect DL to run at a loss. But if they want to retain my loyalty and win over new fans, they really need to focus on providing the kind of service and visitor experience that made them famous. I remember when I was a kid how my parents remarked about how clean the park was - they had people all over the place making sure that any litter was picked up. And they had their pick of employees, to the point that only people with a positive attitude could work there. More recently, the management seems to have decided that they can get away with providing a lower quality experience and coast along on their reputation. That won't work forever, though. Reputations fade, and they are very, very hard to rebuild once they are gone.


According to your logic, Disney should never make a profit, or they should only be making a very minimal profit, because every dollar that comes in that doesn't go to actual operating costs could potentially be put into making the park better rather than being just profit. I do find it slightly amusing, though, that a commercial company is accused of "selling out".



As far as decent wages, "decent" is a relative term. I'll admit to being puzzled by the people who complain that a Disneyland salary isn't enough to support a family of four. I guess I've never viewed a frontline CM salary to be more than a supplemental or temp job. There are lots of jobs that don't pay a "living wage". I count Disneyland in that group.

Cutting back on necessary maintenance is not selling out. It's irresponsible and dangerous and stupid.

As far as rides with cheap, cardboard cutouts, I guess that's a matter of opinion. Quite a few things in the Fantasyland dark rides could be put in that category, but those don't seem to bother anyone. And it also appears that many people think that the only things that should be added to the park are e-tickets. I'm not of that opinion. I can see the charm of non-e-tickets.

Is the proposed price increase surprising? Yep. Is it justified? Don't know and won't know until I go. Can people who don't agree with it refuse to go? Yep. Will some people go and still think it's worth it? Probably.

[cstephens]

Re-composing because the stupid system logged me out and lost everything I wrote...


According to your logic, people should work for DL in temporary positions, but never expect to make enough to make a living at it. That's not going to result in a core staff of quality, experienced people who can make the guest experience memorable. It's going to result in a staff of teenagers and people who aren't qualified for any other jobs because of lack of talent or temperment.

Yes, my expectation is that the people who work at Disneyland will be students, retired people, people who only want part-time jobs (whether because they have kids and don't want to work full-time or are just supplementing another job) or people like that. I worked at DL for a few months multiple years ago, and in that time, I know there were several occasions when I added to someone's visit, and I was neither experienced nor unqualified for a "better" job.


I ran into my first rude DL employee last trip, and I didn't like it. DL is supposed to be clean and filled with people who are friendly to a fault.

You're fortunate then - I ran into my first rude DL employee many years ago. And yes, DL is "supposed" to be many things, but CMs are not animatronics - they're people, and sometimes, people fail. You can't tell me that there was never one single bad CM in all the time that Walt was running the company.


As for cardboard cutout rides - Have you ridden Winnie the Pooh? It's no better than a cheap carnival kiddie ride.

Yes, I have, multiple times, and I'm older than 3. It's a pleasant little ride. I've been on cheap carnival kiddie rides as well, and I can see a world of difference between the two, but maybe you're going to better quality cheap carnivals than I used to.

Toad and Alice have cardboard cutouts, but I don't hear people complaining about those.


Walt Disney would never have approved such a pitiful ride, given today's technology.

With all due respect, you know no such thing as you're not channelling Walt. I reject anyone who claims to "know what Walt would have done".


From what I've seen, the new Monster's Inc ride isn't any better

I like the Monsters ride. My only complaint is that it's too short, but that's because I love the movie and would want them to do all of it in the ride. But again, it's not an e-ticket. I think the Fantasyland dark rides are C-tickets. That's where I'd put this as well.

[adriennek]

From what I've seen, the new Monster's Inc ride isn't any better, although all I've seen is a video, so I suppose there might be some magic in there somewhere.

OHMYGOSH.

Let's start with the sushi scene with the fresh ginger! I love that scene I just wish the ginger scent lingered all the way through! Then there's the locker room scents. :~D And my favorite "door" scene but I've only seen it on one of my 4 or 5 rides - when the Abominable Snowman offered us lemon sno-cones and we could smell the lemon.

They ride is not just cardboard cutouts - there are monsters in it.

And Roz! I don't know how they make it work, but either she's got some really swift artificial intelligence programming or there's a hidden CM who pushes her buttons and knows what to say - but when you pull up next to Roz, she talks to your car. "Hey, little girl! yeah, you with the glasses!" Turn around, there's a girl in the back seat with glasses! Each time I went on the ride her comments were appropriate to the guests in the seats.

It's a really cool and cute little ride!

Adrienne

[olegc]

Yes, my expectation is that the people who work at Disneyland will be students, retired people, people who only want part-time jobs (whether because they have kids and don't want to work full-time or are just supplementing another job) or people like that. I worked at DL for a few months multiple years ago, and in that time, I know there were several occasions when I added to someone's visit, and I was neither experienced nor unqualified for a "better" job.



well, that may be more true today - but it's been well documented in several books that historically Disneyland was a place you could make a career out of. The more experience you had about functions and operations in the park actually made you much more valuable to serve guests and all of their requests. The many years of knowing what worked and what did not, when to expect the operational ups and downs, and handle the unexpected, really comes from individuals who have had many years under their belts (witness the current problems they are having with foods - not just lack of staff but lack of experience).

[cstephens]

And Roz! I don't know how they make it work, but either she's got some really swift artificial intelligence programming or there's a hidden CM who pushes her buttons and knows what to say

I have to pay more attention next time I'm on the ride, but I noticed something on our ride last week - there's a CM in the unloading area. For some reason, it occurred to me that he/she could be the person pushing the right button, because Roz probably has a certain number of pre-set sayings, and he/she can see the car that's in front of Roz so would be able to know what would be appropriate for Roz to say, but the people in the car would be paying attention to other stuff and Roz and so wouldn't notice him/her pushing the button.


well, that may be more true today - but it's been well documented in several books that historically Disneyland was a place you could make a career out of. The more experience you had about functions and operations in the park actually made you much more valuable to serve guests and all of their requests. The many years of knowing what worked and what did not, when to expect the operational ups and downs, and handle the unexpected, really comes from individuals who have had many years under their belts (witness the current problems they are having with foods - not just lack of staff but lack of experience).

I could see that making more sense for some of the lead positions but not necessarily vital to the front-line positions, who could be taught by the leads. When I worked at the park back in 1987, I mostly saw the students/retired/part-time crowd making up the CM contingent. Granted, I was only there for a very short time, but I don't recall meeting one person who was trying to use a DL job to sustain a living.

[DianeM]

Well, I'm trying not to "derail", but I wanted to let you know that you've intrigued me enough to give the ride a shot the next time we visit. I think my problem is that I remember loving the dark rides as a kid. Snow White is a scary adventure, and Mr. Toad is a wile ride, with explosions and sudden turns. And on Peter Pan... you FLYYYYYYYYYYYY! They were special. Pooh didn't seem special, and the video for Monsters Inc doesn't seem much better. But, like I said, I haven't ridden it, so there may be some magic in there. Thanks for the tips.


[derail]OHMYGOSH.

Let's start with the sushi scene with the fresh ginger! I love that scene I just wish the ginger scent lingered all the way through! Then there's the locker room scents. :~D And my favorite "door" scene but I've only seen it on one of my 4 or 5 rides - when the Abominable Snowman offered us lemon sno-cones and we could smell the lemon.

[Pirate Lover]

My family and I are hoping to eat there when we go, and are just wondering how expensive it is in relation to the new Blue Bayou prices. Thanks!

[Micki0624]

It is alot cheaper. Check out the article on the home page.

[disney_leonard]

I couldn't find it in the articles but here is a thread that has it.

http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?t=57281

[Mermaid]

To continue the derail... I didn't notice there were scents in the ride!! I think there may be a CM hidden camera or something and someone behind the scenes voices Roz. I have only been on once though, so I haven't had time to investigate! She talked to my sister and I and we had no idea that was going to happen! It was fun! I do know though how many open doors are on the facade!!;)

[Andrew]

Back on topic: Anyone know if the cheese in the three-cheese Monte Cristo is vegetarian (i.e. no rennet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet))?

[Alex S.]

I don't know one way or the other but it seems unlikely.

[pisces]

Well, they certainly aren't vegan, since any cheese, except soy, is an animal product.

Vegetarian is a term open to interpretation, it seems.

[Alex S.]

Pretty much every definition of vegetarian excludes cow stomach.

Quite a few vegetarians eat non-fatal animal byproducts such as dairy products, eggs, and honey. But I've never met one (including me when I was one) that would eat a cow stomach.

And according to a post at another message board where the person claims to have called the Dine line, the cheese does, in fact, contain rennet. I figured this would be the case since you're not going to find many dairies that could meet Disney's demand that do not use it.

[PapiBear]

That reminds me, they should serve menudo at Rancho del Zocalo.

[pisces]

Pretty much every definition of vegetarian excludes cow stomach.

Quite a few vegetarians eat non-fatal animal byproducts such as dairy products, eggs, and honey. But I've never met one (including me when I was one) that would eat a cow stomach.

And according to a post at another message board where the person claims to have called the Dine line, the cheese does, in fact, contain rennet. I figured this would be the case since you're not going to find many dairies that could meet Disney's demand that do not use it.

I always figured anything "cow" was dairy, and therefore "non-beef"

Do cows have hoofs?

Anything with hoofs is beef. And anything without hoofs is .....dairy or poultry.

I really don't know.

I try to keep things simple. For me something is either an animal byproduct, or it isn't.

There does seem to be this grey area, for some, though.

[cstephens]

We do know that penguins are poultry and that there is a type of chicken that has lips.

[Mermaid]

We do know that penguins are poultry and that there is a type of chicken that has lips.
mmmm... is penguin on the new menu???

[Alex S.]

I always figured anything "cow" was dairy, and therefore "non-beef"

Do cows have hoofs?

Anything with hoofs is beef. And anything without hoofs is .....dairy or poultry.

I really don't know.

I try to keep things simple. For me something is either an animal byproduct, or it isn't.

There does seem to be this grey area, for some, though.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

Everything that has hooves is not beef. Goat is not beef. Moose is not beef. Certain Christian Conceptions of Satan are not beef. I do not have hooves and yet I am neither dairy nor poultry ("I have nipples, could you milk me" comes to mind).

And you're right. Everything is either an animal byproduct or it is not. Honey is an animal byproduct. Boulders are not. Milk is an animal byproduct. Cow stomachs are not (they're an animal product).

Vegetarians do not eat animal products.
Most vegetarians do eat animal byproducts.
Vegans do not eat either animal products or animal byproducts.

It sounds to me like you may be trying to keep things too simple.

[Alex S.]

mmmm... is penguin on the new menu???

If they're not they should be. Penguins are indigenous to Jamaica.

[sriggins]

It's a date. Lunch on July 17th?

Hey we'll be there on the 17th as well :)