Maybe saved is too strong a word, but I was looking at how some rides around the world are being changed by either replacing the entire train or using new restraint systems to eliminate the OTSR. So that got me to thinking about possibilities for the coasters of SFMM.

Now that X, the people sucker, and Deja Vu wipe out the lines at the other rides, I am thinking that it is time that SFMM alters some of the older coasters in the park that are falling in popularity. Here are some crazy ideas to update rides.

1.) Batman - Still one of the best rides in the park, but for some reason, there is almost never a line for it. Are people growing tired of the ride? So the idea would be to alter the train from being an inverted coaster into a flying coaster similar to B&M's trains used on Superman in Georgia.

2.) Ninja - Could be changed using the new floorless coaster cars by Vekoma that can be used on suspended coasters.

3.) Viper - Great layout, but the ride would benefit from the style of floorless trains found on Medusa, except 2 across.

4.) Flashback - Isn't the layout similar to a wild mouse? The current trains are head bashers, so maybe changing the trains to be similar to those found on the wild mice coasters would "save" the ride.

5.) Revolution - There are new restraints used on Mr. Freeze in SFOT that eliminated the need for shoulder restraints, which would be great for this ride.

6.) Psyclone - should come with heavy padding on the sides and heavy duty shock absorbers.

7) Goliath - maybe a new color scheme for the trains, and some major repainting, but it would be cool if they could arrange it so that one side goes backwards all the time.

8.) Goldrusher - I think it may be more thrilling as a "dark" coaster, like Space Mountain, but themed to the idea of traveling through dark caves. The trees removed for the construction could be transplanted over to Deja Vu which needs some shade trees or to other parts of the park that are tree starved, such as around the back side of Riddler.

Of course, I look forward to the oft rumored 2003 coaster additions, but it would be fantastic to try to see them update the older rides.

HEY! leave gold rusher out of this!

Goldrusher is good for it's style, but it could be a lot better as a more elaborately themed ride. Imagine theme on the scale of Big Thunder at DL and that is what could be done to enhance the ride.

Originally posted by DBJ
2.) Ninja - Could be changed using the new floorless coaster cars by Vekoma that can be used on suspended coasters.
Ironic. When Ninja first opened, it was floorless. It didn't last long. I'm not sure why. Safety? People throwing stuff? I don't know. Besides, the only way to improve Ninja would be to make it not suck! Speed it up, change the theme.

Ever seen the Hulk launching system at IOA? Pretty creative. Maybe something like that could be installed on sections of the track to speed up the slow spots?

Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
Ironic. When Ninja first opened, it was floorless. It didn't last long. I'm not sure why. Safety? People throwing stuff? I don't know. Besides, the only way to improve Ninja would be to make it not suck! Speed it up, change the theme.


Um, are you sure about this?

Ninja is one of the few coasters at SFMM that has gone under no major modifications. The trains used for Ninja have ALWAYS been the same--the were designed by the coaster's manufacturer, Arrow Dynamics--which built other suspended coasters with the same style trains. They've always been enclosed with OTSR's.

Originally posted by DBJ
Maybe saved is too strong a word, but I was looking at how some rides around the world are being changed by either replacing the entire train or using new restraint systems to eliminate the OTSR. So that got me to thinking about possibilities for the coasters of SFMM.

1.) Batman - Still one of the best rides in the park, but for some reason, there is almost never a line for it. Are people growing tired of the ride? So the idea would be to alter the train from being an inverted coaster into a flying coaster similar to B&M's trains used on Superman in Georgia.

2.) Ninja - Could be changed using the new floorless coaster cars by Vekoma that can be used on suspended coasters.

3.) Viper - Great layout, but the ride would benefit from the style of floorless trains found on Medusa, except 2 across.

4.) Flashback - Isn't the layout similar to a wild mouse? The current trains are head bashers, so maybe changing the trains to be similar to those found on the wild mice coasters would "save" the ride.

5.) Revolution - There are new restraints used on Mr. Freeze in SFOT that eliminated the need for shoulder restraints, which would be great for this ride.

6.) Psyclone - should come with heavy padding on the sides and heavy duty shock absorbers.

7) Goliath - maybe a new color scheme for the trains, and some major repainting, but it would be cool if they could arrange it so that one side goes backwards all the time.

8.) Goldrusher - I think it may be more thrilling as a "dark" coaster, like Space Mountain, but themed to the idea of traveling through dark caves. The trees removed for the construction could be transplanted over to Deja Vu which needs some shade trees or to other parts of the park that are tree starved, such as around the back side of Riddler.

Of course, I look forward to the oft rumored 2003 coaster additions, but it would be fantastic to try to see them update the older rides.


Actually, SFMM is the perfect park for this type of discussion. Of all the parks I have been to---no other has a collection of potentially awesome coasters that have been botched due to a lackluster design, awesomely bad modifications, and/or poor coaster trains. Considering that SFMM's coasters become utterly forgettable after a few years, leading them to feel the need to build another to draw people back, I really wish they would take a look at all the coasters and fix them up. The park brags about having the most coaster of any park on the planet, and yet I feel that most parks have better collection of coasters overall, even if it is half. Most of the coasters at SFMM suck.

So I'm going to go down your list and add comments of my own, in response.

1. Batman--No need to changes here. The B&M inverted trains are of perfect design. Notice there is no headbanging. I really don't know if the new B&M flyer trains would work for Batman. I highly doubt it simply because Batman is a very intense ride and flyer trains simply were not designed for Batman's conpact layout.

2. Ninja---Again, Ninja's trains are perfect. I'm not sure what Vekoma floorless trains you are talking about, but if they are the ones from Deja Vu, I couldn't disagree more. Vekoma's design of those trains (and with the entire Deja Vu) show a complete lapse of judgement on their part. Notice how long DV takes to load becuase the seat's setup? Besides, one of the main point's of Ninja involves the swinging, which if taken away would really make the ride dull. I think Ninja is fine as it is---however, I would love some kind of theming along the ride's path.

3. Viper---Unless Arrow or Vekoma design a new trains with a floorless feature it will never happen. My only complaint with Viper are the brakes throughout the ride that throw you into the restraints.

4. Flashback--Believe it or not, Flashback was to be a travelling fair coaster and the trains had NO OTSR's. Just the lap bar. But Six Flags decided to add the extra restraints to keep rides from being able to hit parts of the track while riding. Actually I wonder how well B&M floorless or regular sitdown trains would work on this ride since the coaster was actually designed by an early B&M while the were working with Intamin.

5. Revolution---Actually, this is the park's biggest travesty. After running the coaster for 15 years with only a lap bar, they slapped own these home made horsecollars to prevent people from turning around during the loop and getting whiplash. Now all the coaster features instead of great thrills is unpleasant headbanging. So the new lap only trains (a la Mr Freeze) won't go well---the coaster was already there. Revolution's trains are the same (or closely related to)those used on Montezooma's Revenge, SFOT's Shockwave, and SFOG's Mindbender. They could at least find a way to put on a restraint that doesn't injure their riders.

6. Psyclone---These trains (designed by B&M, their only wooden coaster train) are wretched! They are the main reason why the ride is so bad--they track very poorly, although run great on Colossus. My suggestion would be PTC trains--the best ones for wooden coasters.

7. Goliath---I just wish they would/could add one or two more cars to the train to increase coaster capacity. Other than that the trains are just fine.

8. Goldrusher---this coaster is a lost cause. I'm not going to bother.

9. Colossus---Get rid of those AWFUL Morgan trains! UGH! Bring back the PTC's, use Psyclone's trains permanently, but those trains they currently use are horrible. Furthermore, bring back the double dip, get rid of the brakes, and quit slowing down the chain at the top of the lift hill. Then Colossus will be great again!

10. X---get the third train in and overstaff the ride so it dispatches frequently! But I know I can just dream on!

Believe it or not, I saw the third X train and it is not a myth. Unfortunately, I have yet to see it actually used. If they hit 5 hour lines now, I can't wait to see the lines on a Saturday in July.
I am going to make it a point to go to SFMM with a camera to capture the madness this summer of the X line.

Originally posted by FredofLasVegas



Um, are you sure about this?

Ninja is one of the few coasters at SFMM that has gone under no major modifications. The trains used for Ninja have ALWAYS been the same--the were designed by the coaster's manufacturer, Arrow Dynamics--which built other suspended coasters with the same style trains. They've always been enclosed with OTSR's. Hrmm, you're probably right. I do remember, however, hearing that they changed SOMETHING. I thought it was putting floors on, but it may have been that they toned down the back and forth 'swinging' movement or something. Of course, I could be completely off-base and just trying to stretch for a reason to explain why the ride is so bad. It's my least favorite coaster in the park, and that includes Goldrusher.

Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
Hrmm, you're probably right. I do remember, however, hearing that they changed SOMETHING. I thought it was putting floors on, but it may have been that they toned down the back and forth 'swinging' movement or something. Of course, I could be completely off-base and just trying to stretch for a reason to explain why the ride is so bad. It's my least favorite coaster in the park, and that includes Goldrusher.


Interesting...maybe it was those oil/waterguards the have above each individual car, perhaps that is something Arrow forgot about and people complained about. All I know is there have been no major modifications to Ninja...period.

Frankly I'm really surprised to hear that Ninja is someone's least favorite coaster in the park. More to the point that Goldrusher is someone's least favorite also, even if I said the coaster was a lost cause. The general consensus of the worst coasters at SFMM are Flashback, Revolution, and Psyclone. And I mean in the coaster community, they are considered among the worst coasters overall.

Ninja is actually one coaster I really like at SFMM, along with Batman, Goliath, and maybe RR. It is a very fun ride and I love flying and swinging thru the scenery. There's only one reason why I can see one hates Ninja so much. It's length. When the ride first opened everyone seemed to just hate it because the line is so long for such a short ride--the typical reaction was "THAT's IT?!" Now with much shorter lines, it's easier to appreciate this fun coaster, and I must say that it has stood the test of time more than most of SFMM's coasters.

I hate Ninja because it's slow and uniteresting. It has such potential, but fails to deliver. I mean, if it really did "swing through the trees" with alot of quick side to side movement, and went faster than 45mph (I don't know the actual speed, but that's what it feels like to me), maybe it'd be a good ride, but as it is, it's supremely dull.

I love Revolution. No it's not the most thrilling ride ever, but it's fun, the scenery is great, etc. Psyclone I can understand why people don't like. I myself have a love/hate relationship with it. I love the track layout. The banked, curving drops are a thrill. My beef with it is the pain. I get beat up every time I ride it, but I usually come back for more. Go figure. I'll give you Flashback. Nothing but a torture device. But I still put Ninja lower, if for no other reason than the fact that so many people DO like it. My brain just can't handle the fact that there can ever be (or at least used to before X and DejaVu) a 2 hour line for a ride that I find so bad, so I've villified it in my mind as the worst ride in the park.

why would they change it? they can't even run the freaking monorail!

The monorail thing is because of the electricity problems. Personally, I would change the monorail off of an electrical system into a power system used on the trams from the parking lot, the power of gas.

Imagine if the monorail was redone as a gas powered locomotive, or maybe turned into an attraction in it's own right. I honestly don't think that it saves that much walking distance between the two stops.

My thought would be to turn into a looney tune locomotive, with spinning cars as it chugged along the pathway.

well, it's a good way to see things and it's better than walking all the way up the hill. plus, it's comfy and walking for a day isn't too easy.

The spot that became the home for Ninja was originally the home for 2 previous coasters that failed. The first was the Sarajevo (sp?) Bobslebs. That was basically a log ride with high banking turns and no water. It was a blast, but wayyyyyyy too short to make it worth riding more than once. They replaced that with ShockWave, the first standing coaster. You stood with a bicycle seat pressing you into the shoulder retraints. The thing bruised my chest and shoulders and the male friend I was with spent the erst of the day talking in a very high pitched voice. Not only was the ride too painful to enjoy, certain parts of the track were sinking. If memory serves, it was near the loop area. They pulled that down and added Ninja. It always had the enclosed cars.

Originally posted by mousey_girl
The spot that became the home for Ninja was originally the home for 2 previous coasters that failed. The first was the Sarajevo (sp?) Bobslebs. That was basically a log ride with high banking turns and no water. It was a blast, but wayyyyyyy too short to make it worth riding more than once. They replaced that with ShockWave, the first standing coaster. You stood with a bicycle seat pressing you into the shoulder retraints. The thing bruised my chest and shoulders and the male friend I was with spent the erst of the day talking in a very high pitched voice. Not only was the ride too painful to enjoy, certain parts of the track were sinking. If memory serves, it was near the loop area. They pulled that down and added Ninja. It always had the enclosed cars.

Actually, the spot were Sarajevo Bobsleds and Shockwave once stood is where Psyclone and Deja Vu now sit, in the back corner of the park.

Both coasters never actually 'failed' but were part of a ride rotation program implemented by Six Flags. Shockwave was sent to Six Flags Great Adventure in Jackson, NJ and then later sent to Astroworld in Houston, TX where it current still operates as Batman:The Escape.

Sarajevo Bobsleds either went to Six Flags over Texas as La Vibora, or is now operating at Great Escape park in Lake George, NY as Alpine Bobsled. This is considered a roller coaster, not a log flume, and I agree that it wasn't worth the long wait, but it is a fun if the line is short.

Also, FYI, Flashback at SFMM was also part of a ride rotation program. It originally ran at SF Great America in Chicago and at Six Flags over Georgia, both under the name of Z-Force.