Interesting feature article in today's LA Times on the new Walt Disney Studios Park in Paris - in particular are the comments of Paul Pressler and others regarding the park .........

Some excerpts .........

(1) Park is only targeted to add about 4 million visitors a year to the 12 million currently visiting DLP each year (sound familiar DCA fans?)

(2) Disney has only 40% equity in the park, which means that it is run more as a franchise than as a flagship operation (makes it easier to blame others if it doesn't do well) and it also means that they will only get some $30M a year added to their bottom line if park meets expectations ...........

(3) Disney is hedging on their "bet" by not building any more of their own hotels onsite but rather allowing "partners" to build (same concept employed at WDW in the early days when funds or confidence in the new venture were low

(4) Other new theme parks scheduled to open in Europe in the next few years - Legoland (Germany), Warner Bros (Spain) and Universal (expanding in Spain and potentially building a new park in Germany)

With some observers noting that the park seems a little sparse on attractions and shows, it appears that Disney is following roughly the same strategy most recently exhibited at Disney’s AK and DCA parks – a strategy of “get the gates open first and then spruce the place up” as opposed to the “full and complete parks” concepts as demonstrated by OLC with Tokyo DisneySea and Universal at their Islands of Adventure in Orlando.

This strategy, in my opinion, indicates two things about current Disney management:

(A) Disney executives know that their brand name has more value than any of the others and know that even sup-par efforts in terms of park themes or attractions will still make them money

(B) Expect any domestic US concerns to take a back seat to worldwide expansion of their “empire” (for example, why build a new park in Florida that will bring in only 10M new visitors a year when you can build one in Hong Kong which will bring in 30M in two years?

(C) Yes, you will get small improvements in the existing parks but don’t look for anything too big stateside for awhile unless local competition in Orlando or Anaheim dictates an "arms race" of new attractions (Don't expect Universal to do much in Orlando or Anaheim - they're too busy trying to stay a step ahead of Disney in China and Europe and maybe even Australia ......)

What this signals, in my opinion, is that Disney knows they can get away with subpar efforts in these parks and still make money - that's a sad sign for those of us who have come to expect only the best (or at least an attempt at the best) from Disney .........

unfortunately, DLP is in France....
after what's been happening there in the last few months, i wouldn't set foot in france, much less spend even one penny....
too bad they can't pick up the park and transplant it to italy....
so i guess our visit 4 years ago will be the first, last and only time.....(unless the french finally take action...highly unlikely....)...
we'll have to get our non-american disney fix in tokyo....and eventually hong kong...

Originally posted by disneyholic family
unfortunately, DLP is in France....
after what's been happening there in the last few months, i wouldn't set foot in france, much less spend even one penny....
too bad they can't pick up the park and transplant it to italy....
so i guess our visit 4 years ago will be the first, last and only time.....(unless the french finally take action...highly unlikely....)...
we'll have to get our non-american disney fix in tokyo....and eventually hong kong...

Maybe I am lost here...but what has been happening in France the last few months?
I have an 18 year old daughter doing a semester in Paris...having a grand time (and hopefully studying)...and we just went last month to visit her. Had a grand time. Loved Disneyland Paris. Beautiful park...although not as clean as ours. But, beautiful none the less.
Great country to visit. And to my knowledge...the #1 vacation spot in the world. So...why specifically won't you go visit this beautiful country again?!:confused: :confused: :confused:

And I spent plenty there.
Just because Disney has a park in France, you won't go to the country? But, will go to Italy? I don't get it.
Maybe I am way off base here...because I am obviously missing something of your point.
And coronamouseman stated some opinions...don't take them as fact.

it's a political commentary...
not appropriate for this board...
anyone who knows what i'm talking about, knows what i'm talking about...:D
suffice to say, the french will never see another penny out of my pocket.....in any way, shape or form....

which is why it's sad that DLP is in france...
we'd love to go there again, but won't.....
so in september we're heading for tokyo instead....

Originally posted by disneyholic family
it's a political commentary...
not appropriate for this board...
anyone who knows what i'm talking about, knows what i'm talking about...:D
suffice to say, the french will never see another penny out of my pocket.....in any way, shape or form....

which is why it's sad that DLP is in france...
we'd love to go there again, but won't.....
so in september we're heading for tokyo instead.... political is it that sounds interesting.While it may not have anything to do with this board Im still interested in knowing what your on about.And Im sure other people are as well.Perhaps you could send us an email or something if you don't feel like mentioning it on this thread.

I'm interested too.
I'm French and I don't understand what you're meaning.
Anyways, I really dislike your reaction whatever it is about. If I start thinking like you there could be a lot of politicals reasons making me staying away from Italy.....
Happy Europa!

Please tell us even if it's weird !
I just cant get why any American citizen should boycot France... :confused: :confused: :confused:

you're in france and you're not aware of anything untoward happening in france these days???....tsk tsk tsk....

OK, add me to the confused list. I'm heading to Paris in less than 3 weeks. I can think of NOTHING that would be of concern to me - not in any arena. Politically, economically, soially things are certainly different that in the US but nothing out of norm that would make me have such a violent reaction. I only see two possibiities: Opposition to the openly gay mayor of Paris, or the controversy over the French man being accused of involvement in the 9/11 terror. Did I hit the mark with these?

Or maybe the french version of Big Brother currently occuring?

Okay, light me up!
Paris's mayor is known in the U.S. for being openly gay !?!

If you are not a news hound or into politics, I suspect it would be easy for this to go in under your radar.

A number of Americans are upset at the French government, because it is refusing to hand over French Moroccan Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called "20th hijacker" who was supposed to be on one of the 9/11 flights (but wasn't). John Ashcroft announced last month that the U.S. will seek the death penalty against Zacarias, and so the French is refusing to hand him over.

It's not all cut and dry, of course. Zacarias may have participated in the planning of the terrorist attacks, but he did not actually participate in the attacks themselves (but I believe he was one of the men who took flying lessons in the U.S.).

Call me a patriot, but given the chance I do not want to visit France or give them any of my money right now.

All this, from a government that blows up anti-nuclear peace activists (the bombing of Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior ship in New Zealand in 1985). Bleaugh.

Well in fact i never heard of that. It's not related here i think.
So this is a tough subject and i won't go further into this. However I still think it is not a reason of such an amalgam, but the battle is already lost i guess.

:cool:

I agree with Mad4Mky. The 2-3K that I will be giving to the French economy is nothing compared to the priceless cultural and social experiences I will get to have over those 2 weeks. I've visited lots of countries who have very different political viewpoints but that hasn't stopped me from visiting. Heck, I have differing political viewpoints with my own country at times but that's because I am free to have my own thoughts without the thought police arresting me.

I guess, bottom line, I'm not going to let me actions, pleasure, experiences, etc. be controlled by things that are beyond my control.

Originally posted by Not Afraid
I agree with Mad4Mky. The 2-3K that I will be giving to the French economy is nothing compared to the priceless cultural and social experiences I will get to have over those 2 weeks. I've visited lots of countries who have very different political viewpoints but that hasn't stopped me from visiting. Heck, I have differing political viewpoints with my own country at times but that's because I am free to have my own thoughts without the thought police arresting me.

I guess, bottom line, I'm not going to let me actions, pleasure, experiences, etc. be controlled by things that are beyond my control.

NotAfraid...did you notice that I deleted my whole message? I wondered if I would upset people, so I backed down and took it off.
But, like what you said above...Every Country has some sort of political agenda or controversy going on at some point in time....including the U.S.of A. I am amazed how many people visit our fair country with all the crud they hear about us on the media. I even wonder why?Why? why? when I hear the stuff that happens in our own backyard.

But, to denying to visit a country as beautiful, historic and culturally diverse from ours is sad. I think of how many people miss the opportunities to visit another country because of cultural differences or political differences. Not to say, you should put yourself in harms way...you couldn't pay me enough to go to Israel or East Timor today...the danger there is not worth the price to see the country.
But France?

:confused:
But,everyone has to choose their own battles, their own causes.
Me...I wanted to see Paris~the city of lights...and I feel I am a richer person because of that wonderful experience.:)

Originally posted by Not Afraid
I guess, bottom line, I'm not going to let me actions, pleasure, experiences, etc. be controlled by things that are beyond my control. Good for you, NA, and I'm glad you've thought this out. I guess my view is that there is very little I can personally do to change things like this, so I do what I can. Kind of like voting, even though I only cast one vote. :)

Wow this really has turn into political debate.But whether you agree with the french or not really shouldn't stop you from visiting Disneyland Paris.I myself did not agree with everything that the US govement has done but it does not mean I will stop visiting DL or WDW Im not missing out on all that fun just because I don't agree with a certain country leadership.Anyway the French Govement are not that bad we owe them a big thank you for helping Disney to set up DLP in there country.

A number of Americans are upset at the French government, because it is refusing to hand over French Moroccan Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called "20th hijacker" who was supposed to be on one of the 9/11 flights (but wasn't). John Ashcroft announced last month that the U.S. will seek the death penalty against Zacarias, and so the French is refusing to hand him over.


=> You have partialy wrong info if i understand "hand him over". You think the guy is in France? As far as i know he is in jail in the USA with the other prisonners. Some time ago the prosecutor went in France to interview his familly, but the familly refused because of the death penalty. Period.

=> As a citizen of a Democratic country & a lover of the USA with several US friends, i was horrified by the September 11th attack. I am really uspet that you would think French government would not cooperate with US Justice. It's simply not the case.

think vichy and you'll know what i'm talking about (or if that's too cryptic, krystal nacht)...but this is not a discussion.....just an explanation....nothing more....
as for boycotts.....it's the only weapon available to me and i certainly intend to use it....(it's not a boycott of DLP, but any money i spend there also benefits the french.....sorry...no can do...)....besides which, there's a travel advisory....but even if there weren't, i wouldn't go there....and i won't buy anything french......certainly not the renault megane we were planning on buying for our daughter....lots of japanese cars to choose from....

have a nice day :)

ok! disneyholic family gave the clues i needed! (call me Sherlock now) ;)

unfortunately it's an equally sad event:
After Israel armies entered the palestinian territories, several attacks of synagogue happened in France. Some medias said that jewish racism was back in France. It's not true: thoses who made thoses crimes are just criminals and offenders. Most of them are alreday in jail.
As a side note, during a march for Israel jewish activists attacked people in the streets & even stab a police officer...

I am especially sad to see how close to peace both countries were 2 years ago and all that wouldn't have happened. :(

Last word: if you don't go to DLP, the one you are hurting most is not the French but the Walt Disney Cie !!! As a DLP shareholder i can assure you that :p

OKAY Let's go back to Disney magic !!! :D

this has been going on for quite some time...

suffice to say, a travel advisory is in effect warning american jews not to travel to france (and belgium as well, as it happens)...
that france is far too dangerous for jews at this time....(ah yes....60 years and nothing has changed)....

too bad i live on this side of the atlantic.....europe is not america...
and that's not a complement (as much as europeans like to believe it is).....

and for the record, the time we were in DLP, we were most definitely not impressed.....not the park so much as the way it was run.....something less than disney efficiency.....an understatement....

I do know several countries have laws prohibiting 'handing over' anyone to the justice systems of counties that practice the death penalty..... Should we ban tourism to those countries too?

I'll echo the posts on here regarding the way DLP is run - I tried hard to get some cast members to even smile at me. Most of the workers I'm sure are french and it's probably hard to train them in the 'Disney' way (or moreover the American way) of customer service and stage presence. However the same goes for many french (and european) restruants and other service type establishments.

I would visit DLP again though - as it is so beautiful. It really is amazing and shouldn't be missed.

Originally posted by disneyholic family
suffice to say, a travel advisory is in effect warning american jews not to travel to france (and belgium as well, as it happens)...
that france is far too dangerous for jews at this time...

You'll all have to pick your own battles and how you intend to fight them, but I'd like to make sure everyone has the correct information. I went searching for the above "travel advisory" and couldn't find it so I emailed the American Embassy in Paris and asked specificly about the safety of American Jews in France. Their response:

At present there is no security threat for American Citizens visiting France or for American interests in the country. However, it is always advisable for Americans traveling abroad to avoid demonstrations or protests of any kind.

Before you travel, we recommend you consult the Worldwide Caution issued by the Department of State on March 17, 2002. The Department of State Travel Advisory service also provides useful information on the countries you are about to visit. The linkfor this information is: www.travel.state.gov
<http://www.travel.state.gov>

Please also see following security information for France:

Visitors to France:

There are no specific threats against Americans or American targets in France. The Embassy advises that the current security situation remains fluid, and that, given the current worldwide environment, American citizens should be aware of potential risks and take these into consideration when making travel plans. We also recommend that visitors maintain a low profile, vary routes and times for all required travel, and treat mail and packages from unfamiliar sources with suspicion. Additionally, we inform
visitors that since September 11, the French government has continued its terrorism awareness posture, the "plan vigipirate." This plan calls for increased vigilance on the part of the general public, particularly in crowded public places that could be attractive targets for terrorists. French security services are also continuing to conduct identity checks and vehicular searches of the general public. All visitors to France are encouraged to assess their security posture, exercise prudent security practices, and report any suspicious incidents to local authorities.


Anyway, Istill plan to visit Paris and DLP (including WDS) next month and look forward to enjoy and celebrate the Country that produced and/or influenced Voltaire, Rousseau, Descarts, Sartre, Camus, Picaso, Van Gogh, Henry Miller, and yes - even Walt Disney himself.

Now to bring this back to topic. I look forward to seeing the place with my own eyes. I'm still dissappointed or at least sceptical in the latest offereings in Anaheim and Paris. However, I'm hopefull that Disney will make something of these places over time. I think they're learning lessons - such as WDS admission also being good for DLP in the evenings - and Tokyo's success can't be ignored. But ask me again when I return home. :)

i specifically said american jews....if you're not one i suppose you can breathe easy and support these lovely people with your money (something i won't do.....)

following is the travel advisory i referred to earlier:

"FRANCE - In the last 18 months there have been over 400 hate crimes against Jewish targets in France including, in recent days, arson attacks against synagogues, Jewish institutions, beatings of Jewish school children and pedestrians and other acts of threats and intimidation in Paris, Marseilles, Lyon and other communities. As a result, the Simon Wiesenthal Center urges Jewish travelers to France to exercise extreme caution while traveling to that country."

by the way, in one of the recent incidents of "beating of jewish school children", mentioned above, was with lead pipes leaving some in critical condition...

and there were several beatings on the champs elysee (including in the haagen das ice cream parlor)....

personally, i cannot support a country that officially is indifferent to what is happening (again).....

I’m sorry when you initially mentioned travel advisory - I thought State Department and not Simon Wiesenthal Center. Obviously the latter is a better spokesperson for the Jewish community in general.

When I emailed the Paris embassy, I specifically asked about Jewish Americans traveling in France. For whatever reason they chose to ignore that distinction. Sadly it seems there are other governments that are officially indifferent to the situation.