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malin
02-11-2002, 03:34 PM
Ok folks its almost here I belive the first previews are this week or the next.However I thought it would be fun to see what predictions you have for the new park.

Here are some of mine

DSP will open to amazing reviews from the press.

DSP will become an overnight success and beat its Projected 4 million visitors.

DLP Resort hotels will increase in visitors thanks to the new park.Hey if it gets people to stay just another night its done its purpose

Merchandise and food sales will also rise.

California and Florida will take one look at Armageddon and add it to both of its parks.

DSP will also officially make the anoucement that the Tower Of Terror will come in time for 2004.

And finally Eisner and DLP bigwigs will start working on ideas for a third park.After the success of the new park.

Which will become Disney France Adventure.Ok lets hope that last prediction does not come true.

BiggJakeMoney
02-27-2002, 01:25 PM
Well, after looking at the Ian's pictorial of the new park so far, I have to say I'm far from impressed. It looks just as bare, industrial, and cheaply themed as DCA, if not more so in some areas. I know, we've only seen about a quarter of the park, but it seems to be a pretty good index of what the rest of the place will be like.

I don't think it will be a smash success. People are people, and whether they live in the U.S., or in France, they know when they're being duped, and given something inferior. I predict a large tanking somewhere along the lines of DCA.

I would say that I hope I'm wrong on this one, but I'm not gonna. If this park is a success, it will just give Eisner the idea that further cost-cutting, penny-pinching, and sub-par parks are now good enough in this time period to be widely accepted by the masses. And that's a bad thing. I would shudder to think what the Anaheim third gate would look like.


-BJM

mad4mky
02-28-2002, 11:33 AM
Well, I have been to MGM Studios at WDW, DCA and Universal Hollywood....

When I am in Paris in two weeks...we're skipping that park. I have seen enough of "studio" parks. When I saw the pictures, I was happy with my decision. In my own opinion...MGM Studios backlot tour is the biggest disappointment...its short and not full of many interesting things to see...unlike Universal Hollywoods...which is a much better attraction. And by the looks of things...DisneyStudios Paris looks as boring as MGM's.

Our time will be much better spent at Disneyland Paris.

malin
02-28-2002, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by mad4mky
Well, I have been to MGM Studios at WDW, DCA and Universal Hollywood....

When I am in Paris in two weeks...we're skipping that park. I have seen enough of "studio" parks. When I saw the pictures, I was happy with my decision. In my own opinion...MGM Studios backlot tour is the biggest disappointment...its short and not full of many interesting things to see...unlike Universal Hollywoods...which is a much better attraction. And by the looks of things...DisneyStudios Paris looks as boring as MGM's.

Our time will be much better spent at Disneyland Paris. Agree with you on the Universal Hollywood tram tour just outstanding.

Im going to the studios in September and can not wait.I know the studios will not be a increadible park like Disney Tokyo Seas is.But Im looking forward to the Stunt Show,Animagique and all the other unique stuff that the studios will be offering.

From the photos that I have seen so far its what I expected.I will be going to the Studios like planned this year and expect to have a great time at both DLP and DSP.

Gracy_hm
02-28-2002, 07:44 PM
WDS looks like a good theme park that will become great. I suggest focus on the positive aspects and quit complining about minor problems. I am agreeing with malin !!!!

Ozymandius
03-01-2002, 08:43 AM
What I find interesting is that even though all "studio" parks try to copy Universal hollywood, they simply cannont do it. I think the reason is that Universal hollywood is an actual studio to which was added a tram tour and then an amuesment park. With the other "studios" (which to a point also includes Universal Orlando), they created a tram tour and an amuesment park and then added the studio to that, and it takes away from the feel of an actual studio. People may not know exactly what goes on in a studio buy they know (at least sub-consciously) when something isn't authentic...

My opinion.

Ozy

zapppop
03-01-2002, 09:17 PM
It's a small park with few rides & attractions but probably costs full price.

Sounds like another DCA to me (which was also predicted to be a big hit).

malin
03-02-2002, 12:54 PM

malin
03-02-2002, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by zapppop
It's a small park with few rides & attractions but probably costs full price.

Sounds like another DCA to me (which was also predicted to be a big hit). Before you start comparing WDS to DCA please look at these important facts.

Disney only predict 4 million guest this year for the Studios.Plus you will be able to park hop to the DLP three hours before the park closes.

The park looks very similar to when MGM Studios Florida open its gate.And MGM was a success from day one.And do not forget that when MGM first open there was no Tower Of Terrer,no Muppets 3D,no Star Tours,no Fantasmic and no RNR Coaster.

If you think the Studios is short of attractions go to Florida and see Animal Kingdom.

Disney is already planning new attractions and have already built the gates leading to the TOT.

Most attractions at the Studios are show based.Which will mean that guest will spend more time in attractions then there would on a ride.

Disney has already seen great interest from UK and Germany guest.

Like I have said before WDS is going to be a success whether you like it or not.

Im going to the WDS this year.And I know I will have a great time.

And for all those sad people that spend all there time moaning on these broads about the way the Disney parks are.I will spare a thought for you when Im riding out of control on RNR Coaster and getting completly soaked on the backlot tour.And drying off on Armageddon.Who would you rather be?

BiggJakeMoney
03-02-2002, 01:48 PM
Well, Malin, as one of "those sad people" who spends time just moaning and complaining on the boards, let me reciprocate........I'll spare a thought for YOU when I'm riding "Journey to the Center of the Earth" and "Stormrider" when I go to Tokyo DisneySea, an infinitely superior park to WDS, in a couple of months.

Sound fair?



-BJM

zapppop
03-02-2002, 04:53 PM
I'm not tryiny to be some grumbly jerk and discourage people from going. I'm going to the Euro Disney Resort in August and although I only plan on visiting
Euro Disneyland, my admission to Walt Disney Studios is already paid for ( thanks to my travel agent ) so I'll probably be seeing the park and who knows, I might like it; but it is a small park with few attractions and the last small park with few attractions that opened with the name " Disney " in the title
is Disney's California Adventure.

Also, it should be noted that DCA also was predicted to be a big hit.

I want to believe that the new park will be a hit, but there's reason to be skeptical.

Horace Horsecollar
03-02-2002, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Ozymandius
What I find interesting is that even though all "studio" parks try to copy Universal hollywood, they simply cannont do it. I think the reason is that Universal hollywood is an actual studio to which was added a tram tour and then an amuesment park. With the other "studios" (which to a point also includes Universal Orlando), they created a tram tour and an amuesment park and then added the studio to that, and it takes away from the feel of an actual studio. People may not know exactly what goes on in a studio buy they know (at least sub-consciously) when something isn't authentic...



I think what sets Universal Hollywood (USH) apart from the other studio parks is that it has the history to back it up. Universal Florida and the Disney Studio parks just can't make that claim. That being said, I think USH is a lousy theme park--a fun tour, but a lousy park. Then again, it wasn't meant to be a theme park.

Disney-MGM is my favorite of the Florida parks because I think it does a good job of capturing the Hollywood of the 1930s and 1940s. A good Hollywood version of Tinsel Town--how post-modern can you get? (Having ToT and RnR doesn't hurt, either.) USF doesn't come off as well for me (although I did enjoy myself there) because it doesn't really invoke a past era--it tries to invoke, well, USH.

As for Disney Studios Paris, I have no idea as to how it will fare (would have to see it myself). If you're looking for a less-negative view of the new park, wander over to Laughingplace.com.

malin
03-03-2002, 05:07 AM
BiggJakeMoney
I do not think your sad for moaning .And Im sorry for making that remark.We all have an opinion about the new Studios.Im just going to make my mind up when when I get to DLPR.Oh and have a great time in Tokyo.

Zapppop
I respect your opinions as well.Please make the effort to visit the Studios because you never know you just might like it.

WDS might seem small right now but it will continue to grow.With attractions like Tower of Terror and the little mermaid attraction that is now being rumoured.Thats the same Little Mermaid that you will find at Tokyo Disney Sea.So lets look forward to the future of the Studios and not just dwell on the present.

coronamouseman
03-04-2002, 07:18 PM
By whose estimation was MGM Studios at hit at WDW when it opened?

I think the only big thing going for MGM at WDW when it opened was the fact that MGM was really a working studio - this meant that the Animation pavilion had real artists working there and that the sound stages in the back had real shows being filmed there (Mickey Mouse Club was there for you Christina A. and Brittany S. fans).

The ride menu was pretty sparse, although MGM did have the big drawing cards of Star Tours, the Great Movie Ride (now considered somewhat dated but nonetheless eagerly anticipated back then), the Indy stunt show, the tram ride though CC and the animation exhibit (which was by far the best attraction in the park).

I think it was a bigger thrill to Disney to add that 3rd gate and in particular, a movie theme park gate designed to keep WDW tourists from shuffling off the property to USF. With a third park, Disney now could lock in a week's worth of business with a 5-day pass including 3 theme parks and 2 water parks.

MGM never became that big a hit until Tower of Terror made it so.

The same could end up being true for DCA and DSP ..............

malin
03-05-2002, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by coronamouseman
By whose estimation was MGM Studios at hit at WDW when it opened?



.............. It was Michael Eisner who said that MGM studios was a great hit in his book Work In Progress.I highly recomend you give it a read.Here is a bit of what the great man said.

Michael Eisner:In a month,the parks success had helped push Disney stock up more than 20 percent.After three months,we announced our intention to double its size over the next few years,based on plans developed as part of our initial design.In Disney-MGMs first half year,overall attendance at WDW rose by more than 5 million visits-most of them guest extending their stays.It increased another 3.5 million the second half of the year.By the end of 1990,operating income from the parks had reached $800 million,up from $250 million when we arrived in 1984.

Also in the book Eisner talks about Disneyland Paris,Disney America and even the Walt Disney Studios Paris.Once you read this book you will chance your opinion of how Eisner runs Disney.

Buy it now from www.amazon.com

disneyhead
03-16-2002, 07:24 PM
Eisner's memory and reality are diametrically opposed.
MGM opened to horrible public and critical reviews.
Yes, in the first three months they did announce that they were going to double it's size. Mainly because of customer complaints. It was an amazing thing to watch them scamble to get new stuff in the park so it wouldn't kill it's reputation. The increase in the resorts attendance was attributed to advanced reservations before anyone knew what was there. A lot of people make reservations at WDW about a year in advance, at that time you had to because on-property rooms were gone if you didn't. At that time the only hotels on property were the Polynesian, Contemporary, the Dolphin and Swan, and the Grand Floridian was being constructed.
Remember Eisner is the ULTIMATE Disney Spin Doctor.

As far as WDS goes the flying carpets look as cheap as WDW's version.
If my count is right, there are only 3 rides in the park: RnR, Flying Carpets, and the Tram Tour.
Let's see 3 rides and a couple of movies/ shows, WOW, how fast can I get there?

coronamouseman
03-17-2002, 06:27 AM
Malin: Well, if ME said it was so then it must be ...............

Take the example of Test Track - it was annouced and marketed well in advance of its opening, many Disney fans booked and paid for vacations based upon that opening date and then the attraction didn't open for two more years - I'm sure that qualified as a success in ME's book because park revenues rose as a result of the attraction even though it opened two years late. By most other accounts, however, Test Track kind of stands as a symbol of current Disney managements inability to do what they say they want do when they say they are going to do it. Do you think anybody trusts them right now on their predictions of when Mission: Space will open or for that matter, the ToT attractions in California or France?

I have visited each of the following parks over the years within 1 year of their openings: USF, Disney Studios at WDW (then MGM), DAK, IOA and finally DCA - in all cases, all were of the variety of "is that all there is to this park" except for IOA ........

Eisner is concerned only with one thing as far as the Disney parks go - INCOME - income in the form of multiple gates, multiple admissions and hotel guest nights. That translates to "guest days per stay" or "guest nights at Disney hotels" or "multiday park ticket sales" in his book and if those numbers make him happy then that is all that matters (except of course his own bonuses which are tied to those numbers).

IOA (and by the look of it DisneySea) proved that if a corporation wants to spend the money up front you can end up with a park that has rich detail and a variety of attractions that will provide fun and excitement for a guest during many return visits - now the payback for that investment will take longer because of the original expense but if the company truly believes in the product and has the nerve to build it then it has been proven that those returns will be there. You just won't see many corporate type people going to an ME these days saying "Payback will take 6 years on this full-scale park instead of 2 years for the smaller one".

But it is clear that ME's modus operandi is going to be one of "let's get the gates open with as little investment as possible up front" and then essentially let the early customers pay for later developments - given that, I choose to wait until these parks develop further to spend my entertainment money on them.
And as the quest for new gates continues, it also means that flagship parks such as Disneyland and WDW MK continue to get overlooked for new attractions and end up with desolate Tomorrowland sectors or with subpar refurbishing or extensive attraction closures ..........

But I've got Disneyland and Knott's within 1/2 hours drive and Universal Hollywood and SFMM within 1.5 hours drive and all of them are heavily discounted right now so I can afford to be choosy and selective for my theme park money and these parks all give you a day's worth of fun for your money .............

malin
03-17-2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by malin
Ok folks its almost here I belive the first previews are this week or the next.However I thought it would be fun to see what predictions you have for the new park.

Here are some of mine

DSP will open to amazing reviews from the press.

DSP will become an overnight success and beat its Projected 4 million visitors.

DLP Resort hotels will increase in visitors thanks to the new park.Hey if it gets people to stay just another night its done its purpose


DSP will also officially make the anoucement that the Tower Of Terror will come in time for 2004.


Oh yeah it looks like some of my WDS predictions have already come true.

The media and DLPR bosses were surprised at the huge atendance that the Studios got yesturday for the opening.

The press reports I have so far read about the WDS are very good.The Sun Newspaper here in the UK had a two page article on the park in Saturdays edition.Which was very positive.

Disneyland Paris Resort hotels are all booked up until September.And me myself will be heading to the Resort for three nights in September.Thats an extra three nights of money that the Resort will be making thanks to the WDS.Oh and that will be three days of buying food and merchadise as well.

And the Tower of Terror logo has already made it to the park.And Im sure the ride is not going to be far behind.

Ian Parkinson had fears and had right to when we first saw his excellent photo reviews of the WDS that it was going to turn out like DCA.But that does not so far seem to be the case.And as Ian is a shareholder Im sure along with all the rest of the shareholders he will be happy with the results so far.

Just one other thing Disney built the Disneyland Paris Resort with a high budget.And it ended up costing them a lot of money and problems.That is why the parks that Disney own are now built un finished.I can't blame them for that.If Universal Studios and the OLC want to spend that kind of money on there theme parks its up to them.

BiggJakeMoney
03-17-2002, 02:02 PM
I don't care how many good reviews the papers give it, or how big attendance was. Attendance at the grand openings of new parks is traditionally pretty huge, and then there's a drop-off. At the AP previews of DCA, hordes of people showed up. Each ride had an almost two hour wait. And then people wised up to the sub-par level of the park, and stopped coming. Which is what will happen with WDS.

I saw Parky's photo tour. It made me sad. Three rides in a new park. THREE RIDES! It's the saddest thing I've ever seen. Their spinny Aladdin Carpet ride is an absolute joke. And from numerous reviews I've heard, their shows aren't really all that much to write home about, save for the car stunt show. From what I saw, it was just another DCA, albeit with even LESS rides than DCA has. Poor themeing, wide open empty spaces, and few attractions. Disney bit it again. And it sucks. But I guess that's the way it's going to be for awhile.

And as far as building parks un-finished, TDS didn't do that, and they have NO financial setbacks or problems. They're well on their way to being in the black very soon. So saying that building un-finished parks is the only feasible way to do it isn't kosher. Quality will get you people in the gate. TDS proved that. Skimping and saving where possible will get you undesired results. DCA proved that. And seeing as WDS seems to be built in the same mold as DCA, well, I can only forsee another critical and commercial flop, until Disney freaks out, and starts frantically putting in cheap rides to fill the place up, a la DCA.

malin
03-17-2002, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by BiggJakeMoney
I don't care how many good reviews the papers give it, or how big attendance was. Attendance at the grand openings of new parks is traditionally pretty huge, and then there's a drop-off. At the AP previews of DCA, hordes of people showed up. Each ride had an almost two hour wait. And then people wised up to the sub-par level of the park, and stopped coming. Which is what will happen with WDS.

I saw Parky's photo tour. It made me sad. Three rides in a new park. THREE RIDES! It's the saddest thing I've ever seen. Their spinny Aladdin Carpet ride is an absolute joke. And from numerous reviews I've heard, their shows aren't really all that much to write home about, save for the car stunt show. From what I saw, it was just another DCA, albeit with even LESS rides than DCA has. Poor themeing, wide open empty spaces, and few attractions. Disney bit it again. And it sucks. But I guess that's the way it's going to be for awhile.

And as far as building parks un-finished, TDS didn't do that, and they have NO financial setbacks or problems. They're well on their way to being in the black very soon. So saying that building un-finished parks is the only feasible way to do it isn't kosher. Quality will get you people in the gate. TDS proved that. Skimping and saving where possible will get you undesired results. DCA proved that. And seeing as WDS seems to be built in the same mold as DCA, well, I can only forsee another critical and commercial flop, until Disney freaks out, and starts frantically putting in cheap rides to fill the place up, a la DCA. The thing with Disneyland and Disney California Adventure is that its guest are APs.DLRP guest are from all over Europe and most are not APs.WDS has had positive reviews and news reports so far.And I belive that will continue.

If you are moaning about the WDS only having three rides.Just take a look at Animal Kingdom when it first opened.I also know that Parky left a lot of detail out of his photo tour.Like all the statue's of the Disney characters in front of the animation building.And Herbie the car in Studio1.Please read laughingplace.com review of the studios which includes this important details.

The OLC(Oriantal Land Company)knew that TDS was going to be an instant hit.The Jap's love theme parks and spend more on them then the Americans do or the Europeans with there parks.And the OLC were willing to spend that kind of money.They took a gamble it paid off.Disney after the problems it had with DLP are not so willing to take that gamble.I can't blame them for that.

WDS is and will continue to be a success and will grow and grow in the years to come.Whether you belive it or not.

Just one other thing WDS in September and DCA in Nevember can't wait.

BiggJakeMoney
03-17-2002, 07:07 PM
The thing with Disneyland and Disney California Adventure is that its guest are APs.DLRP guest are from all over Europe and most are not APs.WDS has had positive reviews and news reports so far.And I belive that will continue.

As I said before, positive news reports and reviews mean absolutely squat. All that matters is the public. It is they who will dictate the success of this park, not the journalists.


If you are moaning about the WDS only having three rides.Just take a look at Animal Kingdom when it first opened.I also know that Parky left a lot of detail out of his photo tour.Like all the statue's of the Disney characters in front of the animation building.And Herbie the car in Studio1.Please read laughingplace.com review of the studios which includes this important details.

Exactly. I'm not too impressed with Animal Kingdom either. Animal Kingdom's one saving grace, though, happens to be it's incredibly convincing atmosphere and beautifully lush grounds, which WDS does not have. And I'm sorry, but statues and old movie props on a tram tour do not a successful and complete park make.


The OLC(Oriantal Land Company)knew that TDS was going to be an instant hit.The Jap's love theme parks and spend more on them then the Americans do or the Europeans with there parks.And the OLC were willing to spend that kind of money.They took a gamble it paid off.Disney after the problems it had with DLP are not so willing to take that gamble.I can't blame them for that.

I pray then, Malin, that you never become CEO of a company. Often times, success or failure in the corporate world hinges on taking risks. Walt Disney himself is a case in point. Everything he did was a risk. "Steamboat Willie" was a risk. "Snow White" was a huge risk. Disneyland was probably the biggest gamble he ever made. Had he not stayed the course, and simply taken the "safe and economical route," Disney would not be nearly the gigantor corporation that it is today. So I can't justify this new park's shortcomings on "playing it safe." "Playing it safe" never got anybody anywhere, and if you want to stretch, and expand, and undertake new and successful endeavors, then you're going to have to take risks and face the unknown.


WDS is and will continue to be a success and will grow and grow in the years to come.Whether you belive it or not.

Well, that remains to be seen. The park's barely open, to call it a success is extremely premature. Wait a few months, maybe even a year, and then you can lay down your verdict. And as far as I'm concerned, I hope it's a failure. That way, Eisner and his overzealous cronies will finally realize that they can't go on building sub-par parks with no rides and a bunch of movies and expect to satisfy the public. WDS's failure might be just the motivation they need to start doing things right again, and bring about a new golden age of theme park design and construction.

HTHBellcaptain
03-17-2002, 09:35 PM
My impressions of what I have seen about WDSP is that the attractions look like they are cool. The problem that I have with the park is that the overall look of the park doesn't seem to be as visually exciting as I think it should be. The facades appear to be just enough, but don't seem to excede expectations. I could be wrong, since I have not been there and can only base my opinion on photographs. My hope is that the park will grow into something that not only has good attractions, but also has a beautiful and inspiring environment.

coronamouseman
03-18-2002, 07:57 AM
Malin:

Let me make a couple of final comments on this thread:

(1) Many of us who live in the US have the relatively easy option of attending Disneyland and/or WDW, so we have the "advantage" of choosing between 6 Disney parks whereas in Europe you had only one and now have 2. Addtionally, many posters to these threads live in the SoCal area (as witnessed by the massive number of postings for Disneyland over the other parks/resorts) so most of those people also have easy access to Knotts, Universal Hollywood and SFMM. So for those of us who have these many parks to choose from, we naturally compare and contrast them. And it just seems that right now that Disney is not putting their best creative and developmental efforts forward.

(2) Many of us who are older yearn for the earlier days of Disney when they were willing to take some risk with new attractions or with a new park concept (like Epcot, for instance). It is clear that Eisner has nowhere near the commitment or interest in taking chances the way Walt Disney did and most certainly there are no Disney family members pushing him in that direction. So if there is lamenting over the loss of creativity, then so be it.

(3) While most of us who are critical of AK, DCA and now WDSP see these parks as a continuation of the Disney policy of "open the gates with the park half-built", we must also admit that Disney has at least established a park which is "half-full" and which will probably some day be built up to a full-day's worth of activities. And those of us who are lucky enough to have multiple Disney or Universal parks at our doorstep should not chastize someone who is slightly gushing over the possibilties that a second park might offer in their neck of the woods.

I hope this helps to make sense out of some of the comments that I and perhaps others have been making ..........



(2)

malin
03-18-2002, 02:58 PM
I would just like to say a couple of final coments as well.

BiggJakeMoney: the public are already making there minds up read the message broads at dlp-guidebook.de if you don't belive me.
Agree with you on Animal Kingdom's beautifully lush grounds.But how can you tell what the WDS atmosphere is like if you have never been.
Walt Disney made some big risk.And so has Michael Eisner.You forget before Eisner joined Disney,Disney refused to go into a joint venture with the Oriantal Land Company on Tokyo Disney.Which has cost Disney millions over the years.Because there were not willing to risk that kind of money on that venture.

You may hope its a failure but I don't.I don't want to see massive layoffs and budget cuts.Also the more money that Disney make the more chances of Disney bosses adding new attractions its a proven fact that Eisner will only spend on how good the company's doing.
Oh and by the way I think I would make a great CEO.


coronamouseman:I have been to Disneyland and Knotts and Universal studios Hollywood.And after seeing Knottsberry farm with all of its Roller Coasters I can not compare it with Disney.But I understand people getting upset that the parks standard has gone down hill recently.I sometimes read Al's update and weep at how bad things are getting.
The reason Im standing by this park is because I like the way Disney built it.I like the 1930's studio theme.I got to see MGM Studios after it just got built and it was a terrible park.No park that Disney has built since was as poor as MGM Studios was at the time.The WDS is not rich in theming like Tokyo Disney Sea's is.But its got a lot of fun attractions and Im excited about what the future of this park will be.MGM turned out to be a fantasic park.It took years to make it that way.But that is the Disney way.Everything that Disney does is a work in progress.


This is the last time I will be posting on this thread about the WDS.But I just want to leave you with a qoute from Roy Disney that he made in the Sun Newspaper in the UK last Saturday about the Walt Disney Studios.


Roy Disney:
One thing from we learned from Walt is that you never open a park a finished park.You open a park that can grow.
"My uncle said that as long as there is imagination,our parks will never be finished and I think this new park shows there is plenty of imagination left.

coronamouseman
03-22-2002, 05:57 PM
Malin - that quote from Walt Disney was made during the opening of Disneyland when they had some 25 rides and a full compliment of restaurants and shops open - don't equate that with a park like AK or DSP where they have 5 rides and a bunch of souvenior shops .............

Walt meant that the park would never be completed, that it would always be evolving to new technology and new ideas - as it did until ME and his corporate clowns began to take the park business for granted and became resort owners .............