in regards to the Big Thunder Railroad accident.

Did you know that Mouseplanet is a consumer watchdog website?

Woof-woof!

According to Websense (used at my work), jhm's site is a "consumer advocacy group." I wonder what DIS had to pay them for that privilege?

Yes, it was a pretty good story on what's happening with BTMRR. Showed MP's article, and a couple of the photos used for the story.

BTW, sediment, I'm not sure I follow your logic. NBC is not owned by Disney (ABC is), so NBC describing MP as a consumer watchdog website is their choice, not Disney's. The same would go for JHM's site as well.

Besides, Disney paying anyone who runs an unofficial website?? Ain't never gonna happen. ;) :D
Sheila

BTW, sediment, I'm not sure I follow your logic. NBC is not owned by Disney (ABC is), so NBC describing MP as a consumer watchdog website is their choice, not Disney's. The same would go for JHM's site as well.

For a minute there I thought you were talking about Nightmare Before Christmas LOL! :D

For a minute there I thought you were talking about Nightmare Before Christmas LOL! :D

Hee! The sheer number of all the various Disney acronyms can trip you up, that's for sure.... :D

Sheila

Yes, it was a pretty good story on what's happening with BTMRR. Showed MP's article, and a couple of the photos used for the story.

BTW, sediment, I'm not sure I follow your logic. NBC is not owned by Disney (ABC is), so NBC describing MP as a consumer watchdog website is their choice, not Disney's. The same would go for JHM's site as well.

Besides, Disney paying anyone who runs an unofficial website?? Ain't never gonna happen. ;) :D
Sheila
I didn't make myself clear: I think that DIS is paying whoever is in charge of Websense to classify JHM as a "consumer advocate group." This is so some people (within DIS) can't view the web site from work. Just allegations, though.

NBC (the network) is just plain wrong, and someone should officially notify them of their error, so it doesn't make the same mistake again.

NBC (the network) is just plain wrong, and someone should officially notify them of their error, so it doesn't make the same mistake again.In all seriousness, what would you call MousePlanet? We don't consider ourselves a fan site, and we frequently refer to ourselves as a consumer-oriented site. I personally reject the term "watchdog" site, but others prefer it.

(And that was a serious question - no snark required)

AVP

In all seriousness, what would you call MousePlanet? We don't consider ourselves a fan site, and we frequently refer to ourselves as a consumer-oriented site. I personally reject the term "watchdog" site, but others prefer it.
Thats a tuff one :confused:

(I'll try to be serious, Alienne...)

"Fan site." No doubt about it. For us fans, after all.
"Informative Fan site" is more appropriate.
"Critical-Thinking Fan site" is even better. No, not that kind of "critical." I was thinking more along the lines of this from M-W:

CRITICAL may also imply an effort to see a thing clearly and truly in order to judge it fairly <a critical essay>.

I can see how being lumped in with other Disney fan sites can be a wee bit insulting.

And since some particular staff members left, any "watchdog" label that could have been affixed to MP left with them. (As well as some of the "fan site" label.)

(How's that for not bumming out?)

I think that an argument could be made that the Pad is a "fan site." However, I would categorically deny that the main site is a "fan site." (Yes, we are also fans, but we make a concerted effort to provide non-biased news whenever possible. To my mind, that makes us a Disney-focused, consumer-oriented news and information site.)

That's too many words, Mark. How's anyone going to remember that?

(How's that for not bumming out?)Interesting. I've always considered "watchdog" to be a negative term for an organization, so it's not loss to me if the "watchdog" label does not apply. And fan site just seems too.... slobbering... for my tastes. "Oh, I just lurrve Mickey Mouse, don't you? :) :) :) Isn't he the niftiest???"

I think consumer-oriented is most applicable, or at least what we try to be. Maybe we're not there yet. I'm not really insulted when someone lumps us in with what I consider to be the major fan sites - I just think they're wrong.

That's too many words, Mark. How's anyone going to remember that?I think that's why we get called a watchdog site - there really isn't a "sound bite" version of what we think we are.

AVP

Sure is a lot of agreeing there, Alienne.
Use plenty of soap.

"Watchdog" implies "soapbox." MP doesn't do a whole lot of that.
"Fan site" implies "irrational adoration ad nauseum." MP doesn't do a whole lot of that, either.
"Critical-thinking information disseminator." Hmm,...DBF might be right, this is tough.

Funny, I thought MousePad was a religion, like Scientology.

Funny, I thought MousePad was a religion, like Scientology.
I can agree with that one

- there really isn't a "sound bite" version of what we think we are.

AVP

I think that is because like Disneyland itself, MP is one of a kind :)

BTW, sediment, I'm not sure I follow your logic. NBC is not owned by Disney (ABC is), so NBC describing MP as a consumer watchdog website is their choice, not Disney's. The same would go for JHM's site as well.
This is correct. NBC is owned by Universal. That's why when you visit L.A. you'll see a HUGE building right next door to USH that proudly displays the NBC Universal logo at the top.

To me, MousePlanet is definitely a fan site. I really don't know what else it could be considered. Sure, it's a fan site that provides information to consumers and rumours and the like, but it's a fan site nonetheless. I don't really see it as a watchdog site and never have, even when it was first started, so I've never understood that label. I think of "watchdog" more like a consumer reports/David Horowitz sort of thing, and I don't see MousePlanet as being in that same category. I don't really see MousePlanet as being that much different than a lot of other fan sites, Disney or otherwise. And being a fan site doesn't have to imply gushing. There are tons of fan sites that are critical about the thing they're about. In fact, like MousePlanet, other fan sites can be even more critical about the topic at hand than casual fans. There are all manner of fan sites, some better than others, some focusing more on one thing than another, some with more information than others.

As for presenting unbiased news, I'm going to disagree with that as well. There are many occasions when there's definitely a slant, and not even a very hidden one, to the information that's being reported. But, even real news organizations (who are supposedly unbiased) do that sort of thing as well, so that wouldn't be unique to MousePlanet.

As for MousePad, I don't even know how the fan site label could be attached to it at all. It's a discussion board. Same as a billion other discussion boards/forums/whatever about a billion different topics.

This is correct. NBC is owned by Universal. That's why when you visit L.A. you'll see a HUGE building right next door to USH that proudly displays the NBC Universal logo at the top. Actually, that's wrong. NBC is owned by General Electric. GE just bought an 80% share of Universal this year; Vivendi retained 20%. GE changed the name of NBC to NBC Universal to reflect this acquisition.

Fan site. It seems to meet the definition exactly.

All - wouldn't you consider a Fan site one in which it mostly portrays the subject matter in a positive or glowing way (i.e. - fanatical), then a watchdog site is one where it's how to prevent gouging and protect the consumer (gas prices, utility bills, etc.)

But - IMHO - Mouseplanet (not the pad) is a consumer news and editorial site for Disney parks. It offers updates, breaking informaiton on events, activities, and happenings at the parks, travel-related information, reviews, editorials (David Koenig's are always great), etc.

And yes, some of you on the pad always feel that MP staffers editorialize in news pieces and slant the coverage. Well, call the whole dang process of news gathering guilty then. I don't know of a single news source that does not offer at least SOME kind of focal point to start from. Liberal media, conservative media, people yelling at each other. It does not matter.

But - what does matter is the method of delivery. Some sites provide only the glowing goodness (a la LP). Other sites offer constant reminders of what's bad, even when they try to relay good info (MA - can't seem to NOT throw a zinger every time). If I had to say that MP was slanted it's quite subtle at best.

You know the saying - everyone has an opinion, just like a .... belly button.

Fan site. It seems to meet the definition exactly.Perhaps. Here is one definition I found online (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Fan%20site): A Fansite or fan site is a website A website or web site created and maintained by the fans or devotees of a particular cultural phenomenon. The phenomenon can be a book, a television show, movie, comic book, person, or any number of alternative items.
Using that definition, I can see where we could be considered a fan site, although I personally disagree with that categorization.

So my next question - at what point is a "fan site" no longer a fan site? If Birnbaums had first published a Web site and not a book, would they have been a fan site? If MousePlanet prints and sells copies of our existing online guide content, would that change our classification? Or did Birnbaums only leave the "fan effort" category when Disney bought them?

Is revenue model the difference? It seems to be for some branches of Disney - they tend to treat sites differently depending on who their corporate parents are.

I perceive no real difference between MousePlanet and other guide publishers, except that we provide our materials online, and for free. While our most "vocal" readers are here for the news and gossip, the majority of our traffic goes to our guides.

The overwhelming majority of our readers never read the boards, never subscribe, never post here, never play MouseAdventure, never interact with MousePlanet or other readers at all. They are the quiet consumers, but they are our majority audience.

It's an interesting discussion. (And since it's no longer related to Disneyland, I'm moving it to the proper forum)

AVP

I don't think Birnbaum is related to this discussion. It has been a corporate shill since the "official" tag was put on its books.

I don't think a fan site could stop being a fan site without some major upheaval in objective -- say all articles and columns here would suddenly be devoted to Russian wheat prices.

I don't think Birnbaum is related to this discussion. It has been a corporate shill since the "official" tag was put on its books.Granted, but what would Birnbaum's be called if they published online, instead of on paper, and were *not* the "official" guide?

I don't think a fan site could stop being a fan site without some major upheaval in objective -- say all articles and columns here would suddenly be devoted to Russian wheat prices. Yes, but wouldn't that make us just a different kind of fan site? If the site was focused on.... IBM, would it fall into fan site? Or is the subject matter - a "cultural phenomenon," the sole defining criteria?

One reason why this discussion is so interesting to me is because it mirrors a discussion I'm having offline. This is remarkably topical.

AVP