OK ... I do not really see this as "advertising," as implied by the posting rules in other forums. As a member of this forum for many years, I hope our moderators will permit me to post this message :) :

"I am not influenced by the techniques or fashions of any other motion picture company" -- Walt Disney

The Disney Channel is ignoring the very principles Disney was founded under and is spitting on the Disney name as a whole. If certain areas in this company ignore their principles, they stop the Disney name from flourishing.

Disney is not just a company, but also a man. Walt Disney was a pioneer whose philosophy for the Disney Company was always to entice people to enjoy all of his masterpieces by providing nothing but "high quality family entertainment." The company he built currently preaches about family, yet
at the same time ignores the very aspects and principles of family entertainment upon which they were built. After all, "this" is where Disney came from; "this" is where Disney was more of a magical legacy than a generic brand name, such as Nickelodeon or MTV. When the Disney Channel
began to ignore these ideals, they helped to stop the Disney name from flourishing into what it was destined to be and what Walt always meant it to be.

"That’s the real trouble with the world, too many people grow up. They forget. They don’t remember what it’s like to be twelve years old. They patronize; they treat children as inferiors. I won’t do that. I’ll temper a story, yes. But I won’t play down, and I won't patronize" -- Walt Disney

Through the “old” Disney Channel, people of all ages were introduced to wonderful old movies. It was on Disney that many first saw a lot of the Disney classics as well as Hollywood classics like the musicals of Rogers and Hammerstein. It used to be programming that parents and children could
watch together. At least the Disney Channel had Vault Disney; that us until 2002, when all "classic" Disney was phased off the air. Why wouldn't today's generation like Old Yeller, Davy Crockett, Five Mile Creek, Mickey Mouse Club, Zorro, Spin & Marty, Walt Disney World Inside Out, Dumbo's
Circus, Pooh Corner, White Fang, Iron Will, Flight of the Navigator, Canterville's Ghost, Disney's Halloween Treat, A Disney Channel Valentine, Tron, Disney's nature specials, etc? This is where Disney came from; films and programs like these are true family classics; and they deserve to be showcased on a Disney television station!

"You’re dead if you aim only for kids" -- Walt Disney

Now the only group the channel plays to is the 12 and under crowd. Disney is about family and once this channel was for family. Now it's a commercial filled, mostly un-watchable channel. One might as well watch Nickelodeon or MTV.

There could have been installed just a few shows that would be popular with the young crowd, but instead the entire channel has been converted to a preteen/preschool dreamland.

"I do not make films primarily for children" -- Walt Disney

Many children today who end up watching the older classics on DVD actually do like them. They like them very much, in fact. The problem, though, is that their parents are the ones who actually want the discs, and as a result these kids wouldn‘t even see these movies if it weren't for them (the
parents). By deciding not to air the old films and television specials, the current company is not giving them more of a chance with a younger generation; a generation that deserves to know the history, the legacy, and the beauty of Walt Disney and his vision.

"The important thing is the family. If you can keep the family together -- and that’s the backbone of our whole business, catering to families -- that’s what we hope to do" -- Walt Disney

Help start up a Vault Disney or Disney Family Channel and put family programming there. What is the harm of mixing in classic Disney films and TV shows, for current and future generations to enjoy, with great non-Disney family fare? The very building blocks of this great company: its morals, its
principals, its values are shown in these timeless treasures. The next generation deserves to know who Walt Disney was. He is certainly one of the most beloved men of all time. Everyone deserves to know what he stood for. And we deserve to tell them.

A few days ago, my family and I returned from Reno. And I don't know if my obsession with Walt Disney has anything to do with this, but while going up to Nevada last week and traveling down this week, and passing by all of the beautiful scenery, through Donners Pass and everything, I am reminded of how Walt fought so adamently to bring all of this naturalistic beauty to the public. These are the very morals and ideals and "principles" Disney was founded under: entertainment that not only could be enjoyed by the entire family, but entertainment at a consistently high level. Entertainment which reflected -- so beautifully -- a deep and passionate love -- and yearning -- for America; not a cheap and dissillusioned America, but a true, naturalistic, "realistic," and country-roads-take-me-home type of America. And most of all, a real sense of the awesome beauty all around us.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/preservethemagic

This campaign has never gotten close to 300 members, and I have pledged to myself that I will work harder and more dillegently to get the word out.

But I cannot do it on my own. Please, I beg you, Lillian begs you, Marc Davis begs you, Frank Wells begs you, Roy begs you ... please: if you care at all about Disney, at "all" about the company, pass out flyers. Promote our campaign via the signature in your e-mail. Spread the word around to family, friends, co-workers, etc.

TV Land is doing wonderfully. So is The Hallmark Channel and Nick-at-Nite. Sesame Workshop is planning to unveil a 24-hour channel devoted entirely to their programming ... I really do believe that we can succeed.

I am completely serious here, and am honestly getting more fed up with Disney every day. If nothing is done, and quick, future generations will be completely unaware of what "Disney" truly means.

And that, to me, is the most frightening thing of all.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/preservethemagic

There's already ABC Family Channel and Toon Disney. One of them could be used for "Disney Classic Channel."

Secondly, a lot of that "old stuff" is available on DVD. But don't get me started on wasting valuable company assets that way, though.
(Counterpoint: if it weren't on DVD and only available on cable channels, then people would TiVo it and then copy it to their own DVDs. And then try to sell copies of them. Best to get the money with Disney's own DVDs.)

But most younger children don't buy the DVD's; that's the problem. And not everyone has a DVD player. Some don't even have a VCR.

And I always thought that ABC Family should become Disney Channel Family. ABC Family already plays a lot of quality family programming, much like how The Disney Channel used to be. What it was designed to be. And what it was always intended to be.

I agree with the need for a channel that shows classic Disney stuff. I disagree that a whole new channel is needed. According to my cable company, that would cost me money, whether I watched it or not.

Disney channel has gone way down hill and i use to love watching vault disney at night. It was so fun to see walt disney on tv and hear him talking about his dreams.

To Eisner, his image was a constant reminder of what the company cannot currently compete with: its past.

ABC Family and Toon Disney are fine the way they are because each have their own nitch and format. We do have, on my cable company at least and I'm sure on others, multiple Disney Channels. Exact copies of the channel that just mix up the exact same shows at different times (not to say you can't still flip through and see Raven on both at the same time quite often!). Why not make one of those "Disney Classic", have it be the Disney version of TVLand. They wouldn't be the only company to take such an approach, even VH1 has Vh1 Classic.

Did anyone see the abc family fall schedule? It is getting all of the WBs tv shows and is showing them from the begging. Does disney work with the WB network?

i loved seeing Valut Disney, then it kept getting pushed later at night, the only reason, imo, it got cancled is because it got poor ratings, but who is awake at 3 in the morning to watch it?? Mike needs to kick himself in the back of the pants and really watch the TV shows he is letting get put out, instead of thinking he is in his own version of It's A Small World, but it's called, As Long As I Keep This Up,(And No one notices, which i know they don't) I'll be even more rich. :p

yeah vault disney was good and some of the old cartoons were to....but er now disney keeps putting on shows like lizzie mcguire and raven and then the shows end up cancled because the actors think they can make it big in a singing career or disney isnt paying them enough money (which is was hilary duff left)

I totally agree with you. I used to love watching the old Mickey Mouse Club and all those other old shows. I even remember watching Disney Channel through the squiggly lines when we didn't get it when I was really little. That channel used to be so fun to watch, but now it is literally a moving BOP magazine. My cousin doesn't even like her daughter watching the shows on it now because she picks up too much from the characters in them. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather my kid look up to Lizzie McGuire than Britney Spears, but the typical plot lines are just so stupid and un-imaginative. They're pretty much always about boys, clothes, the school bully, or popstars. Kids deserve shows (and I'm not talking about Playhouse Disney here) that actually have fantasy aspects. I'm not buying this whole "future" trend they've got going now either. Phil of the Future, That's so Raven, the never ending Zenon Sequels. They're all kind of fun to watch, but they just aren't Disney. Whatever happened to that one Alice in Wonderland show they had, where the girl walks through her dressing mirror into wonderland? That taught you life lessons, AND it had a little imagination behind it. And the Disney movie spin-off shows, like The Little Mermaid and Aladdin? They could do more of those in replacement of the stupid teenie-bopper shows they have on now, Lilo and Stitch looks to be doing well. Oh yeah, and that show where Belle would read to a bunch of kids? I used to love that! Now Disney Channel is just a marketing ploy to get teen girls to have singing careers and make the company some money. I do give them credit for making a movie about Sep. 11th. That had to be kind of risky, but I enjoyed it a lot more than any other movie they've had on since the first Zenon. I keep hearing stocks are down for Disney all the time, and I'd like to see what would happen if the company went back to it's old self. Sorry that was so long, I'm just hating seeing my little 5 year old cousins caring about whether or not their outfits coordinate well like Raven's, or if Ethan off of Lizzie McGuire would like how their hair looked if he walked by.

WHOA!
Just last night (that was 8/15), my sister and I were talking about how dumbed-down the Disney Channel has become.
Flipping through the channels (don't DARE to think that I was actually wasting brain cells on the Disney Channel! :D ), we saw a commercial for "Dave the Barbarian." Our mouths dropped open.
When we were young, the Disney Channel meant premium family entertainment. It provided a great mix of shows ("Under the Umbrella Tree") and commercial-free movies, and was head-and-shoulders above Nickelodeon. It wasn't without its bad moments: I was never a fan of the "New Mickey Mouse Club," and "Kids and Company" was even worse. It even occasionally aired competitor's films--remember watching "Daffy Duck's Fantastic Island" on Disney?
But enough about our memories. What about today's kids? Nick and Cartoon Network are still way ahead of Disney, and Boomerang--which shows only classic cartoons--is becoming extremely popular with today's kids. A Vault Disney network would be widely successful.
The problem with today's Disney Co. is that they don't realize that great entertainment is timeless. The original Disney animated shorts (and Looney Tunes for that matter) are still superior to most of today's animation. The animation quality is much better! Despite their pathetic animation, the original Scooby Doo series was well written; and it enjoys a great life in reruns.
Eisner and his crew have a frightening mentality of "out with the old, in with the new" that disregards quality and doesn't realize that old doesn't mean outdated.
I could go on and on...of course, I'm an Art History minor and I tend to analyze everything. :rolleyes: I think you get the point.
Sorry for the almost obscenely long post. :)

The trouble is: the company could easily compete with its past, if the right mindset were achieved.

The original Disney Channel used to pull together a lot of what Disney was about into one place. The classic stuff such as Vault Disney, reruns of Mickey Mouse Club (1950s) and of course Wonderful World of Disney reruns, and Zorro! Then they tackled made-for-TV movies, I remember one very excellent title was "Heidi" the classic children's novel that had Patricia Neal starring as Heidi's grandmother. Then there were the days of "Disney Inside Out" where the Disney Channel regularly showed us both WDW and Disneyland. Remember the Disneyland Halloween show with Maynard of Haunted Mansion on it? When "Hunchback of Notre Dame" had it's world premiere in the Superdome in New Orleans (where I'm from) in June 1996 Disney Channel telecast it live (yes live! ) . And then of course Disney Channel did classic family movies and new movies and shows, and classic Disney cartoons too.

Today our son watches a couple of cartoons on Disney Channel, most notably "Lilo & Stitch" and maybe one or two others. The children's block in the morning is very good, particularly Rolie Polie Ollie (so '50s retro) and Bear in the Big Blue House and Out of the Box. "Lizzie McGuire" was a good attempt at recreating and updating an Annette Funicello/Hayley Mills sweetheart girl next door for the new millenium, but Disney let the star Hillary Duff get away, now all there is is reruns. But the Disney synergy we watched the Disney Channel start out with has evolved into something our family in part has outgrown (boy age 8.5 years) and in part just are not interested in.

The synergy with adults and tying into theme parks is the strangest loss from Disney Channel. Travel Channel the last few years has done a superb job of Disney fan total-immersion shows about Walt Disney World and Disneyland and Disney Cruise Line, and Samantha Brown's "Great Hotels" series has been such a joy to watch when Ms. Brown does Disney hotels, but only the high-end hotels, and not even all of those yet. Food Network has done two fun shows: "Unwrapped" at WDW and the Disney Weddings show this past June, wasn't there another show Food Network did about Napa Rose at the Grand Californian Hotel? It's great to see these shows. But Disney Channel used to tackle the same subjects. What happened that things changed?

Things are so set in place right now I doubt anyone at Disney Channel would think to want to change a thing. But I do miss the "old days" of that channel except for one important thing: It's not worth paying an extra cable or satellite fee for, as it used to be when you'd have to pay extra as anyone would pay extra for a premium channel such as HBO or Showtime. At least Disney Channel as it is now isn't costing any extra, if it did as big Disney fans as my husband and I are we would unsubscribe to that if it charged extra and devote the funds somewhere else. We didn't leave the Disney Channel. It left us.

I wouldnt be surprised if Disney responds to this by putting Vault Disney on satellite. HELLO?! SATELLITE?! Talk about people who cant afford VCRs! Theyre outta their minds if they plan to rip us off like that. I'm saying that is what would likely happen considering all of Disney's more popular tv cartoons are found on Toon Disney, which is a satellite channel.

Nick and Cartoon Network are no better than Disney in my opinion. I hardly see any of the classics anymore. Cartoon Network however takes very unique approaches at entertaining today's kids while Nick...er...

I'm going to be watching more of Fox Box and less of ABC kids this fall. Why? because ABC Kids will be showing reruns of shows that have expired for several years such as Recess, while Fox Box, despite how terrible the program is is at least coming out with new things every season...curious new things.

Besides, all the stuff on ABC Kids are Disney Channel repeats anyway. Fox Box is only on once a week!

I did see the weddings thing on Food Network one time. I'm surprised that no one in LA thought of using Disney to promote the weak theme parks but what do they know?

Your best bet for learning about Disney theme parks is Travel Channel and Food Network. there are lots of great sites around the net too

I wouldnt be surprised if Disney responds to this by putting Vault Disney on satellite. HELLO?! SATELLITE?! Talk about people who cant afford VCRs! Theyre outta their minds if they plan to rip us off like that. I'm saying that is what would likely happen considering all of Disney's more popular tv cartoons are found on Toon Disney, which is a satellite channel.

Uh, with the exception of ABC, >all< of Disney's networks are satellite channels...

-Jeff

Is it me or has anyone else noticed that when Disney purchased ABC/Capital Cities, that's when things started going downhill for the Disney Channel?

I think they need to sell the money-draining ABC properties entirely and rebuild and remarket the Disney Channel (even splitting into two channels - Disney Classic and Disney Modern) with the profits (although some of that profit money should also go toward fixing things at Disneyland). The Television Animation department needs to be scaled down (because there's just too much junk TV animation coming out of Disney these days - boring, insipid, uninspired stuff) and Feature Animation needs to have its staff restored and increased funding.

Who knows, we may see such a renaissance at Disney in the next decade, what with television digital standards about to become enforced in a couple years.

Some of us here have been pushing for this for a while now: sell ABC/Cap Cities, and use proceeds to buy Pixar, and install Jobs as CEO.

I think Time/Warner would be a perfect fit, if it had any money.

Is it me or has anyone else noticed that when Disney purchased ABC/Capital Cities, that's when things started going downhill for the Disney Channel?

Unfortunately, I think this is one area where the needs/wants of Disney enthusiasts really conflicts badly with the business reality. The Disney Channel really has never been more popular and successful than it is right now. It is a safe bet that the target audience for the channel does not correspond at all well with those that tend to participate on boards like this, but it really is hitting its target audience exceptionally well.

Nostalgia really hasn't sold exceptionally well on cable networks. TV Land was never the hit that Nickelodeon/Viacom expected it to be and Cartoon Network has also shifted toward original/recent programming to a great degree. I'd love to see a "Vault Disney" channel that focused on the older Disney material, but I suspect that it would be a difficult sale. Generally, that type of material has found more of a market on DVD, which I think is why we are seeing Disney focusing most of their attention on this material in that format.

-Jeff

Just a thought, unfortunately for those of us who'd definitely watch a "Vault Disney"-type channel on satellite or cable:

Notice lately when Disney issues DVDs the "Vault"-type stuff ends up in the Walt Disney Treasures collections (those home videos in the metal tins). This means they are not as mass-marketed as, say, "Finding Nemo" or "Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl" were, they are more of a niche audience segment purchase. The quantities in those releases are in the hundreds of thousands, not millions. And if those of us who value such content want such content, we have to pay for them in dribs and drabs via home video purchases once or twice a year, rather than an ongoing channel that we can flip on, watch, and record for personal use as we see fit.

On Vault Disney they indeed had great vintage shows. And some of the shows were, by today's standards, obscure and rather dull. Ah! But in the history of Disney Channel there used to be wonderful things on the air that are no longer on the air.

Remember when Disney Channel used to be a premium cable service, like HBO or Showtime are today you had to pay extra for it. Back in those days they would show the channel for free a couple of times a year, so cable subscribers could sample the programming and sign up for paying extra for it with their cable systems. They used to show wonderful shows in that era! We were very fortunate to have recorded them. These shows include the incomparable "Mickey's Nutcracker" stage-musical show at Disneyland, I've heard the producer of this went on to "Beauty and the Beast" for Broadway. We have another show about the creation of Main Street Electrical Parade at Disneyland, how it's lit, operated, the disasters of trying to get the idea to reality and how it's opening went (truly "horror" stories that Disney fans at Disneyana conventions love to hear) but also the delight of the crowds who used to gather to see this beloved icon on Main Street at Disneyland, that show dates to the mid to late 1980s. I mentioned the movie of "Heidi" up above in an earlier post. Disney Channel used to show Mickey Mouse and other vintage Disney cartoons to wake up with in the morning on weekdays!

If only my husband and I had the benefit of knowing then what we know now. We would have taped a whole lot more Disney Channel stuff than we did as a personal video archive. Like Joni Mitchell sings, "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've lost 'til it's gone?"

Certainly all cable channels have to assess their audiences and do the sort of programming that would meet with the widest commercial and popular success. But on satellite there are many channels that are very niche indeed. It would be very nice to see a Vault Disney-type oldies channel sometime somewhere. But I don't know that in the current business climate that would ever happen, these types of shows would come first to home video. When Vault Disney came on Disney Channel that was fans' chance to support it by viewership. The sad thing is that Disney Channel undermined Vault Disney by programming the same reruns with frequent rotation and some of the same lesser quality vintage shows also with frequent rotation. The viewership must have dropped off to the point of not being profitable enough to continue, not if viewers no longer supported it. And that is why that program segment went away.

But Disney fans are dreamers, and as Darby O'Gill says perhaps we will indeed get a vintage programming Disney Channel someday, "in our dreams!" ;)

I found this quote from an article from SaveDisney.com (http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20020902195835.03175.00000840%40mb-mp.aol.com&output=gplain)

"The Disney Channel is a service for kids and their families; it's not a
general entertainment service for everybody," said Richard Ross, the Disney
Channel's president of entertainment. "We can't be all things for all people."

If Walt were still alive he would be throwing his remote at these executives for making such a ludicrus comment.

How could someone say something so stupid. He needs to be fired. Walt once said "Your dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway."