"I understand no establishment is perfect, and sadly accidents do occur. But the third accident on the same ride in less than a year? At a Disney Theme Park? OK, sure, then trains were moving very slowly, yes I get that. But, call it what you will, they collided."

I have been on numerous rides at DL that have "collided". Such as the Matterhorn and POTC to name a couple. Do we fear these rides? Someone can get seriously injured on these rides when the colliding occurs.

Have we become a nation that lives in fear? Is there less thrill seekers in our nation? Have we become a nation that "wants" and "needs" guarentees that accidents will not happen?

Any comments?

All right, I admit it. I'm one of the people who won't go on Indiana Jones for fear of getting a concusion. :(

Let the mocking begin.

I just think of all the money my kids would make touring the talk-show circuit as *the kids who's mother met her fate on the Matterhorn*. I always see the cup half full ;)

I have trust in Cast Member Matt to fix, nay, overhaul the whole park back to what it was in terms of quality, safety, and overall bang for the buck.

Anyone who doesn't know about the positive changes to management simply hasn't read enough here and at Al's new site.
The changes during the old regime took place over an about-nine-year (?)period. It's going to take some time to right the course. Eisner was there the other day (according to Al) and instead of yes-manning the whole tour, CM Matt pointed out what was needed to improve the park.

Michael Strong's letter (the last one) was very interesting.

yeah...well I go on MM coasters..after those DL/DCA is a piece of cake. I sometimes have a passing thoughts of the safety of MM coasters, but I don't worry about it and I still ride them. As soon as Big Thunder opens I'll be on it...without thirills and risks life is boring...:)

oh and there are never any real gurantees in life...

For some reason everytime I see a mechanic, the person seems like a bafoon like carnie mechanic. Now compare our accidents we get compared to 10-15 years ago.

I'll never stop riding BTMRR. The odds are heavily stacked in my favour. And it's a ride I greatly enjoy.

I may meet my fate later today, or at the BTMRR. That's something I have no control of. So why not have some fun? :)

Have we become a nation that lives in fear? Is there less thrill seekers in our nation? Have we become a nation that "wants" and "needs" guarentees that accidents will not happen?

Any comments?

Yeah. When I go to Disneyland, I don't want to have to think about NEEDLESS, PREVENTABLE DEATH every time I go into Frontierland. The last time I was there, gazing across the loading area at the Rivers of America (or as my friends call it Plaza Del Muerte) at the spires of Big Thunder I got an overwhelming sense of sadness for people who died (and were maimed) in accidents that were utterly preventable.

The park has been operating for nearly 50 years and not until very recently have there been fatal accidents that were the Park's fault. And when the philosophy has been "We have to run these rides to failure" (paraphrased from Paul Pressler) I have the utmost confidence that the Disney Company is not placing my safety on top of their priority list.

And how do you know that there has not been any deaths or injury beyond as of late? I do know for a fact that when Space Mountain first opened up and it was pitch black on the ride that people were coming off the ride with hurt necks, hence they lightened the ride.

In the past problems that arose were dealt with quickly, quietly and discreetly. It did not hit the newstand or televison. Video cameras, cell phones and such were not available so news traveled more slowly.

I can think of many problems that can arise.
Reclaimed water at the Matterhorn may give a person a staph infection if the rider has a cut and the water splashes on it.

The giant swing in DCA could break hurddling riders into the water.

We saw how the Teacup threw a rider out of the cup.

King Tritons carasaul could throw a young rider while spinning around.

Eating at any of the area food establishments could cause a person to choke to death or get food poisoning.

The Pooh ride and the Roger Rabbit ride could cause a person to have a seizure thus hitting their head and causing a fatal accident.

Walking around the park could cause a person to have heat stroke and die. Or worse yet a tree fall down on the person and die. (this did happen to a lady that was at a park, the tree just fell over on top of her anc killed her)

At anytime any ride in the park could cause a person with a medical contion have a heartattack, anuryism, stroke and many other medical conditons to pass away.

How about the shuttle that takes you from your car to the park. It could tip over at anytime and kill you.

Stay off the boats, could sink and drown the people.

The best bet is not to ride on the rides, eat the food, walk the park I guess just stay away from the park. Since rider saftey is not on their list it would be wise to stay far away.

I think I'm slightly more fearful than I used to be... but part of that probably comes from having a child anyway, and isn't truly due to news of past accidents!!! I really don't understand why there is room for human error on these rides. Is there not technology available for a computer to not allow a ride to take off if certain criteria aren't met? Like having safety belts/bars engaged, etc? I know that this system would probably not be able to detect a loose bolt, but someone should be checking for those daily IMO.

The park has been operating for nearly 50 years and not until very recently have there been fatal accidents that were the Park's fault.
And how do you know that there has not been any deaths or injury beyond as of late?

I believe there's been around 52 deaths at/due to injury at Disneyland
I think the first recorded death due to injury at Disney was in 1964, which was caused on the Matterhorn.

I may have incorrect information. A friend of mine, her boyfriend had a small zine like pamphlet entitled "Death at Disneyland", which listed every single know death due to injury or accident at Disneyland. I'm not sure where he got it. I tried looking for it on the internet just now and I couldn't find it.

Other accidents, like the ones of the brother who drowned in the Rivers of America after trying to hide out at Tom Sawyer island to be at Disneyland after closing.. yes it's his fault that the dope couldn't swim across the smallest width "river" ever, or the guy who jumped out of the Skyway.. but I also hold Disneyland accountable for letting something like this happen, and all other "non-attraction accident" injuries.

Lindsay

I do not and will not hold Disney accountable for deaths related to guest stupidity. Yes, go ahead and try to crawl over the monorail tracks to sneak in to the park, oh yeah, and make sure you stand up and put your arms and legs out on EVERY ride.

Onto the preventable accident thing, yes, accidents caused by human error are preventable, but I believe in the fact that not every accident lies in the fault of SOMEONE, and that people were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. By no means am I saying that September's accident was a wrong place/wrong time scenario.

As I've ranted on other boards, I find it quite humorous that people "expect more of Disney", despite the fact that most of their rides are no different than rides operating in other parks. There are plenty of coasters just like Big Thunder, and unless we are talking about fairs and carnivals, they are more than likely just as safe. I don't mind taking the risk, because I know that nothing can be safe and it would be close to impossible in this day and age to guarantee safety.

Despite past accidents on the ride, I have other things that I am worried about that are more likely to happen, like car accidents and the like. I know the whole "collided" thing is nothing to joke about, but get this: I was on Kali River Rapids and Grizzly River Run and the rafts HIT each other at the end....hmmm. I really can't imagine the speed too much different, and sure, BTM has more capacity, but it couldn't have honestly been as bad.

And as I've said, I find it unfair to refer to these accidents within the context of each other, because an accident WITHOUT passengers and a low speed collision with minor injuries should not be compared in the same leagues as a death. I know that it is hard to gauge what a collision and that speed and capacity would feel like, but it would have been worse if people were still LOADING. (I suppose I can compare: Collision can't be worse than the car accident I was recently in, or when I had to bail off a bike going at least 25 mph down a hill)

I guess what really makes me mad is that the last two accidents have had a big deal made over them, even when last year, the Space Mountain in TDL DERAILED, empty of course, and the Big Thunder Mountain in Florida, I believe it was, was having problems of its own. But those were never a big deal.

Lawyers are the reason for all this hype. Sue happy people are the reason. People get hurt daily everywhere. But when something like this happens at DL, someone sees $$$$$$$$$$$$$. Espcially after the recent death. I am not knocking lawyers, they are needed in certain instances. But just like the stupid people who sue McDonald's because they are getting fat, or the coffee burns them, if there were not lawyers to defent them, these silly lawsuits would go away.
Think to the entrance in to Matterhorn. It stops and jerks you, pretty hard, back. Could someone not claim injury then, and that is a normal process of the ride. POTC boats and iasw (lowercase letters just for darkbeer) boats collide ALL the time. What is someone had their baby on their lap and wasn't holding on tightly, they could fall out. Someone could slip on the moving walk way to enter the doombuggies on HM. Accidents happen. But if people were not able to be so damn sue happy, things would be a lot better.

Thing is though, up until fairly recently Disney used to actually BANK on the purported safety of their rides. For many many years Disney stressed in newspapers, on tv in many forms of media the underlying safety of their rides. In fact they made publicity stunts out of their maintenace that went hand in hand with the safety of the rides, remember the national geographic in the 60's that told all about how workers were there around the clock painting and fixing things, and how they stressed that Disneyland was not run like other amusement parks? Heck even the Walt Disney presents show, stressed to its public the safety of attractions, the cleanliness and upkeep of them. For years after Disney died they rode the coattails of that reputation: that Disneyland was a family park that you could trust in every way. Sure it was naive to beleive it, but Disney put out that message for years, and there was little there to doubt about it since they really had very few accidents that were not the fault of the guest.

I would go so far to say that Disneyland built its entire reputation on cleanliness and maintenace its really what seperated it from all other amusement parks when it opened. It would not have mattered if the rides were the best in the world if they appeared to look unsafe, thats why many families didnt go to those other parks at the time very much, because they appeared unsafe. Many of those parks were indeed unsafe, but some were run quite well and were about as safe as riding in your own car (the analogy everyone keeps bringing up), however because of the appearance and reputation from that appearance, many families would not go to those parks.


Walt told everyone that Disneyland would be different it would be a clean safe place for families to go, this was the entire premise that got a lot of families to go to Disneyland that wouldnt go to other amusement parks, and this is subsequently what Disneyland built its repuation upon year after year, while Walt was alive and after. It really wasnt the awe inspiring rides that kept people coming it was Disneyland's reputation for spotless cleanliness and top notch upkeep, a place that infused the idea that you were perfectly safe here, and if you followed the rules you wouldnt get hurt ( I'm no fool no sirree gonna live to be 103 I play it safe for you and me because I'm no fool... :) ).

I contend that a great deal of what keeps people coming is still that beleif in being safe at Disneyland, the difference between now and then though is, that the head people that run the park dont put as much emphasis on those things that BUILT Disneyland as they used to. Disneyland used to absolutely pride itself on its safety record, if something, even a small thing went wrong it was taken care of immediately: they absolutely KNEW what the public expected out of Disney, and Disneyland and tried their best to deliver even if it meant eating some of the costs, because they knew in the long run they would make higher gains back through that hard earned reputation. Though its a trite cliche now, its so true with Disney, the customer DID come first it was rare you would find entire pieces of show scenes missing, they would eat the cost and close the attraction more often than not if it had something that needing fixing that badly, you would NEVER find a entire scene missing animatronics (ala the last scene of pirates lately) because that was considered bad show, and thus would make for a bad reputation. Reputation was EVERYTHING to Disneyland.

Walt knew the value of long term gains and employed them daily even if it meant having to shell out money that he wouldnt see coming back right away. Now and especially with a board of investors they can only see short term gain, and THAT is whats killing the company. I am hoping Matt can steer their eyes back to long term gains, he appears to be trying, whether they will take the hint or not is another story.

I agree totally about the safety thing. I will NOT take my children to MM. I do not feel that it is as safe as I feel DL is. I STILL feel DL is safe. I don't let accidents like what happened on BTMRR scare me away.