Disabled Ask Disneyland to Restore Passes for Rides - LA Times, 7/19/04 (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disabled19jul19,1,1954664.story) (Note: A free subscription is required to read this article)

Other park patrons are voicing the same complaints. Critics have collected 14,700 signatures on an Internet petition that asks Disneyland to again offer "special assistance passes" that allowed disabled guests and those accompanying them to enter rides through the exit, often bypassing long lines.

I thought this article, which I missed when it first ran, was interesting given the "cheating to avoid lines" thread currently in this forum.

AVP

I haven't been since the new policy has been in place but I've just read that article and have major concerns now that fast pass is being "revamped/eliminated" so we'll see how things go next visit

Does anyone know who was organizing this Internet petition?

Does anyone know who was organizing this Internet petition?
Probably just a bunch of fakers.




I'm kidding!!!

I don't get it...if Knotts can ask for a Doctors note, why cant Disneyland? I mean, like it says in the article...people who really do need the passes have no problem providing documantation and often carry it irrigardless of need. I can't climb stairs or stand for long periods, I carry a Doctors note. I don't see the problem.

I haven't been since the new policy has been in place but I've just read that article and have major concerns now that fast pass is being "revamped/eliminated" so we'll see how things go next visit

We've been with the new policy...and we didn't get a hassle, or have any problems at all with getting a GAC (or what ever they are called now).
Unless they change things drastically before you get down there again...you should have no worries getting one for you and Brandy. :)

Thanks for the input M4M, we'll be down there several times in the course of the next six to eight weeks so it's nice to have that information!

Warning: This post contains strong opinions based solely on what I read in the article.

This issue appears to be a tempest in a teapot. It appears that one or two people have been denied some "perks" and are now whining about it.

From the article:
So when she and her mom arrived this summer at Disneyland and discovered that the park no longer gives disabled patrons special access to rides, they were reminded of what Kelsey couldn't do. [Emphasis mine. This quote is then followed by more whining from the girl's mother.]
If you read the article, you'll see the girl wasn't denied access to a ride; she was denied line-cutting privileges. And I see nothing in the article indicating why line-cutting privileges are necessary in her case.
Critics have collected 14,700 signatures on an Internet petition that asks Disneyland to again offer "special assistance passes" that allowed disabled guests and those accompanying them to enter rides through the exit, often bypassing long lines.
The article doesn't say why all people with disabilities should bypass the long lines in which other guests wait.
The O'Maleys, for example, said they spent much of their time during a recent visit trying to figure out the new rules and arguing with Disneyland employees.
After reading the whole article, I think it's possible that they wasted a lot of time trying to obtain a perk to which they weren't entitled and getting angry about it.
Park officials said the program was so abused that sometimes the handicapped line was longer than the normal one.

Under the new system, Disney employees talk with park visitors to determine the level of assistance they may need, said Disneyland Resort spokesman Bob Tucker.
No system will ever be perfect, but this approach sounds like the best approach for Disney, for guests with disabilities, for the people who accompany them and for the other guests and should have everyone's support.
Employees first told her [Sarah Demarco] they no longer had disabled passes to give her. When she complained, they gave her a pass that allowed her to use her specially fitted triple-seat stroller as a wheelchair, which allowed her to take it in lines for rides.
She complained because they improved the system? Sounds like a chip-on-the-shoulder problem.
DeMarco said she struggled to wind the stroller through long lines and often had to lift it to fit through the queues. And when she complained to ride operators, they told her to go back to City Hall to request a different pass that gave her more access.
In my experience, when you take away perks from people with chips on their shoulder, you can then expect them to find any necessary task a "struggle". But I can also see how someone at City Hall might have misjudged the size of the chair relative to queue widths. It sounds like an honest mistake.
"But now the people that really are handicapped are paying the price."
No, she, the mother, had to make an additional trip to City Hall and had to stand in line like everybody else. Her chip-on-the-shoulder attitude is what's turning her inconvenience and lost perk into a civil rights debacle.
"It seems there's confusion among employees," Anthony said. "I don't think everyone's getting the message on what the actual policy is."
As can be expected with any improvement, including the ADA itself.
"They have taken federal law, and they're allowing it to be applied at the discretion of [employees]," O'Maley said.
As opposed to the discretion of the guests? It takes human judgement to assess the accommodations needed. Summarily giving all possible accommodations to everyone who has a disability, regardless of type, was spoiling things for everyone, including the very people the measures were intended to accommodate.
The disabled patrons said they are simply asking for accommodation and compassion.
No, their mothers are asking for perks, as emphasized by the next paragraph:
"Do you know how many things we can't do that we accept?" O'Maley said. "It's in your face every day what you're shut out of…. This was one of the few breaks people with disabilities got."

I was going to point that out except that everyone jumped on me because I pointed out that some Mother claimed her child had a disease that she couldn't spell properly.

Warning: This post contains strong opinions based solely on what I read in the article.

In my experience, when you take away perks from people with chips on their shoulder, you can then expect them to find any necessary task a "struggle". But I can also see how someone at City Hall might have misjudged the size of the chair relative to queue widths. It sounds like an honest mistake.



When I was last at DLR in May, when we were waiting in line at Indiana Jones, we were standing behind a family with a daughter who was probably about 10. Her mother was blind, and was using for the day a motorized wheelchair, for she had some sight, but walking around massive amounts of people probably didn't make it easy.
While we were behind them, they tried as much as they could to take their chair through the zigzagging of the queue, but couldnt manage to get it through without it ramming each corner, and having to back it up multiple times. At this point, the mother had gotten out, and her husband had began to try to manuever it around. People were starting to get frustrated (myself included, I was just wanting them to say forget it, and to start dragging the darn thing..), and getting angry because they were told to use the queue, even though the chair obviously shouldn't have gone through.

I'd imagine this is what it was like for a mother, who possibly was alone, trying to get a three-child stroller through a line queue. Of course it was hard for her to manage, she's never had to do it before. Imagine yourself trying to push a Home Depot or Cosco sized grocery cart through the queque lines of Alice in Wonderland. OF COURSE you'll have to struggle.

I think it's ridiculous to think she's complaining that it was hard because she has a chip on her shoulder. Yes, she is complaining in reaction to the new GAC card. I complained too when I found out SAP was to be gone. But of course, when we got to DLR and got a GAC, and I kept my mouth shut. I don't expect anything special from DLR, and I think the GAC helped us, and I happily waited my time in lines when we didn't need to use the GAC. Do I want the SAP back with stricter provision? Heck yes.

This is a whole 'nother can of worms, but if anything, a mother of not one, but THREE children with disabilites has a right to have a chip on her shoulder, if at all.

Lindsay

This is a whole 'nother can of worms, but if anything, a mother of not one, but THREE children with disabilites has a right to have a chip on her shoulder, if at all.
Yes it is another can of worms, one with which I wholeheartedly disagree. Most of the people I encounter whose children have disabilities appear to have developed more patience than I have, so the mother referred to in the article appears to be out of the ordinary to me. Since I do not know this lady, my opinion was formed strictly from the facts presented and the tone and content of her comments.

Edited to add: Regarding the lady with the vision impairment and the motorized chair in the queue: In my profession, I am required to know and implement my knowledge on maneuvering wheelchairs through tight spaces. I have found that people who do not use wheelchairs, motorized or not, on a regular basis, have a hard time maneuvering them through spaces which meet the minimum maneuvering space requirements of federal civil rights law and the International Building Code. Regarding the lady with the 3 children with disabilities in a single "chair": I believe oversized conveyances will encounter "struggles" in maneuvering through any doorway, aisle or other path of travel presented which meets the minimum size requirements. It's not DLR's responsibility to widen all its doorways, aisles, queues and other paths of travel to satisfy this lady, regardless of how difficult her life is. Nor is it their responsibility to allow her to participate in attractions without waiting since she and her children are perfectly capable of waiting like everyone else. If DLR and the other guests want to voluntarily do something extra nice for her and her children by giving them cuts in line, then they can do so. But for her to demand it demonstrates to me that she has a chip on her shoulder.

I've been staying out of this discussion because I know a lot more about the situation that was actually in the LA Times article, but there are a few points I'd like to make:

1) Sarah Demarco was given incorrect information, or she misunderstood what the pass she was given allowed her to do. The "stroller = wheelchair" pass means that she would use the wheelchair-accessible entrances to the rides. There was no reason she would have to "lift it to fit through the queues," because she shouldn't have been in most queues. None of Fantasyland requires a person using a wheelchair - or designated stroller - to take it through the queue.

2) According to the article, the O'Malley's "spent much of their time during a recent visit trying to figure out the new rules and arguing with Disneyland employees." I believe only the second half of that statement - they apparently did spend a lot of time arguing. But it seems unlikely that they were confused about the "new rules." Ms. O'Malley and her daughter - and their assistance dog, who was not mentioned in the story - apparently visited the resort two weeks before the trip mentioned in the article, and pretty much did a dry run. When they returned with the LA Times reporter, they went to the same rides and tried to ask for the same accomodations they had already been denied on the first trip, including demanding that they be allowed to leave the assistance dog unattended outside GRR while they rode.

3) That said, I completely understand the frustrations of and sympathize with anyone who has to try to deal with the resort's new policy. I firmly believe that I could approach 10 different cast members and get 10 different stories about what the accessible accomodation is for any given ride or attraction. I do not believe that Disney has made enough of an effort to train the rank-and-file cast members in the "new" policy, or to standardize access among the rides.

In the O'Malley case, apparently some cast members HAD allowed her to leave the dog unattended, and others had volunteered to watch the dog, while she and her daughter went on other rides. The first is a blatant policy violation, the other a grey area. When cast members don't know the rules well enough to enforce them, you are definitely going to get ticked-off guests.

I strongly feel that Disney needs to spend a lot more time and effort in training the cast members on the correct policy, and making sure that the rules are being fairly, and consistantly, applied. Right now, too much is left up to cast member discretion.

AVP

In the O'Malley case, apparently some cast members HAD allowed her to leave the dog unattended, and others had volunteered to watch the dog, while she and her daughter went on other rides. The first is a blatant policy violation, the other a grey area. When cast members don't know the rules well enough to enforce them, you are definitely going to get ticked-off guests.

I strongly feel that Disney needs to spend a lot more time and effort in training the cast members on the correct policy, and making sure that the rules are being fairly, and consistantly, applied. Right now, too much is left up to cast member discretion.

AVP

I wholeheartedly agree. I felt like when we were in the park, most of the other people we encountered with GAC were confused and a bit angry at the fact that the new system didnt seem to have all the kinks out.
They need to make sure that every employee is on the same page regarding the new system.

Also, I am curious as to how service dogs are treated in the parks. Does someone in the guest's group have to watch the dog when the person needing the dog's assistance is on a ride? I've never seen a service dog in the park, and it seems like it could be overwhelming for both a CM to deal with, and for the dog in the crowds.

In general, it seems everyone is a bit in the grey area regarding how to treat a service dog in action in most retail type situations. Just something I'm a bit curious about, if anyone has any insight.
Of course I know the basics about them (they're working:don't touch, you always see the trainer dogs at the mall and stuff sometimes), but otherwise I'm puzzled how a business/store handles some situations that may come up (person wanting to try on clothes, person needing to use the bathrooom, etc.

Lindsay

MousePlanet has run two articles dealing with assistance dogs at Disneyland:

One (http://www.mouseplanet.com/tag/tag040113as.htm)

Two (http://www.mouseplanet.com/magicyears/myj021211.htm)

AVP

thanks!