Took my sister to Disneyland last week. She hasn't been in several years, and was shocked to see first-hand, the decline of DL that I've been telling her about. But that's another story.

One noticeable problem we had was making our way around the super-sized strollers so many people have nowadays! I hadn't really noticed it before, but she's in a wheelchair, and therefore needs more space. There was a stroller in line in front of us at the entrance gate so wide it wouldn't fit through! A wheelchair can fit through, but not this goliath of a stroller. And it just seemed that so many people had 2-seater strollers too, the side-by-side ones. I really dislike those because they take the whole sidewalk. I prefer the front-seat/back-seat models.

We also noticed the children in strollers were much older than should be riding in strollers. 4 and 5 years old. And I'm not talking at the end of the day, but first thing in the morning. Back when I was young (insert joke here) we didn't use a stroller for more than a few years.

I'm guessing people over use strollers is to keep track of their kids. Its easier to shove them in a stroller than teach the child to obey their parent.

Whatever the reasoning is, this just helps the obesity epidemic, starting at a very young age. Taking away their natural urge to walk & run, when they get older they're too lazy to. They need to use that energy, and be taught to do as they're told.

Articles have been written about this (Using strollers too much, a habit among busy parents, can make for more inactive lifestyles for toddlers and contribute to obesity in preschool or later in childhood, doctors say. - LA Times, 9/8/03, By Stein) and I wanted to hear what people with young children think.

Yes the (what did Adrienne used to call them?) Urban Assault Vehicles are a pain. Console yourself with the knowledge that the parents using them are pushished by having to maneuver them around the park in the crowds. Karma.

Well, my daughter is already seven so we're way past stroller days. But when she was young, we often did not use a stroller past the age of two. She had a lot of energy from a very young age so we always had her walking as much as possible (Disneyland included-and we made many trips there). It helped with getting her to bed at a decent hour. In fact, when she was young, we had a family joke that Disneyland was the only place that could wear her out! To be honest the main reason I used a stroller was to help carry all the stuff you have to take with you with young children. I hated using a stroller in Disneyland; we had some extremely scary moments after Fantasmic in Adventureland with my daughter in the stroller and I'm 4'11". It's so much easier to get around the park without it. However, I only have one child. I think people with more than one child would obviously think very differently. Sometimes it's hard to keep track of multiple children in a place like Disneyland.

When I was a wee cub, too old for a stroller and too young to be reliably trusted (3ish, I think), my parents kept me on a leash. It let me run and frolick and burn energy, all without getting separated in a crowd. I've often wondered why more parents don't use them.

Yes the (what did Adrienne used to call them?) Urban Assault Vehicles are a pain.

I call them SUVs and I bless mine. It's large but it's lightweight and very well made. (Actually I should say "they" - I have one single and one double stroller and they're much sturdier and handier and easier to manuever than my small stroller.) Yes, it slows me down but it let's me bring my children and take care of them well.

Adrienne

We also noticed the children in strollers were much older than should be riding in strollers. 4 and 5 years old. And I'm not talking at the end of the day, but first thing in the morning. Back when I was young (insert joke here) we didn't use a stroller for more than a few years.

I'm guessing people over use strollers is to keep track of their kids. Its easier to shove them in a stroller than teach the child to obey their parent.

Whatever the reasoning is, this just helps the obesity epidemic, starting at a very young age. Taking away their natural urge to walk & run, when they get older they're too lazy to. They need to use that energy, and be taught to do as they're told.

Well, I hate to make assumptions but here I go: You don't currently have young children, do you?

re: obesity and taking away my children's natural urge to walk & run making them lazy: You haven't met my sons, have you?

My stroller allows my children to conserve energy to last a long day at Disneyland- even take naps in the stroller when they need to. They allow me to watch my children better in crowds, too. I have used leashes in the past but when a child gets tired, then the leash is going to be a burden not a help- I'm not going to drag my child with a leash if he's tired, I'll use it to let him lead when the crowd allows it and he's full of energy. Also, like Stitchlvr said, I use it to carry the stuff I need to take care of my children. Lockers aren't practical with children under 5. If I need something from the locker when I'm at Small World, I need it NOW, not when I can get back to the locker to get it.

As for being taught to do as they're told- My children are very polite and pretty well-behaved. I'm frequently complimented by "strangers" who encounter my children's politeness in public. I realize that there are children in the world who aren't the most obedient but at the same time the idea of Stepford children doing as they're told frightens me on some levels.

One of my favorite speakers on the topic of classroom and family discipline says that we don't want perfectly obedient children because these are the children who grow up and do what their "friends tell them what to do instead of growing up learning to think for themselves. I'd rather teach my children how to make their own decisions- and make good decisions, than to do what I tell them to do. Sometimes that means letting them make poor choices and experiencing the natural consequences for themselves. If my children's occasional imperfections in public bother others, then they probably shouldn't be going places that will expose them to high numbers of children.

Adrienne

Alex, I'll take Breastfeeding in Public for $1000....

Nope, no young kids. But I don't make assumptions about the fact people did NOT coddle children in a stroller for YEARS like they do now. The entire country is getting fatter and lazier (me included!) and its starting younger than ever. Not to say that your children will, but they're swimming against the tide nowdays.

I do see a lot of stuff in strollers, and can tell people use them for storage. That can become a bad habit though. Same as people (with no kids) who carry huge backpacks into the park. I used to do that, stuffing all kinds of stuff that I thought I couldn't live w/out during my time at Disneyland. Thank God I got over that! I travel as light as I can now (with as big of pockets I can find on pants LOL).

I see your signature "Alex, I'll take Breastfeeding in Public for $1000" which reminds me. We saw a hillbilly-looking woman with a boob whipped out breastfeeding in the midst of a huge crowd near The Pooh ride. Sheesh! Now she really did look like she came from the mountains of Appalachia, but there are many more private and relaxing places to do that . . .

When you read this, please keep a pretty calm matter-of-fact tone in mind because that's what I'm feeling/trying to express: "Oh, well."

Now she really did look like she came from the mountains of Appalachia, but there are many more private and relaxing places to do that . . .

Uh-huh, how did I know that was coming? Except, it's really not fair to classify all nursing mothers as "hillbillies." I don't think I look like a hillbilly and I wouldn't say that I "whip" out my boob, but I guess if you happen to be staring at my chest when I stop to feed my children, you're likely to see my breast briefly. Although, I don't know why other people would be staring at my chest, it's not that exciting.

The question to the $1000 answer is: What is the other parenting choice I make that annoys other people.

I would say "I'm sorry you find this offensive" but that would be a disingenous untruth. I could say that "I'm sorry that there are people who can't handle breastfeeding in public," because that's true. (Contrary to what others have claimed, I don't make apologies I don't mean.) I won't ask you where you think I should go to find a 'private' place in Disneyland to do that, because I don't eat in bathrooms nor do I expect my infants to. Baby Care Center, although a wonderful place, is not an option for me most of the time, as I've explained in my column about the BCC. It is often a great option for others, if they know about it and if they're there at the "right" time.

You might just want to check my photo out and stay far away from me when you go to Disneyland because me, my SUV-stroller, my breastfeeding boobs, and my children will all be there. I really don't make these choices to offend other people, but I'm not going to stop either any of these parenting choices.

I'm doing a pretty good job parenting and I have three awesome children to show for it. I probably do something else annoying but the strollers and the breastfeeding seem to be the two that people complain most about when they come to complain about parents with young children at Disneyland.

Adrienne

We used a stroller for The Boy until he was 4. I am sure that there were people that looked at him and thought that he was too old to be there, just as I am sure that people look at him now thinking he is too old to act as young as he is. My son has the same problems as I did at his age... He is only 7 but looks as if he could be 9 or 10. When he was 18mnths he looked a 3 yr old. We didn't use the stroller past his 4th b-day. He was not yet ready for us to stop using it any earlier than that. He is far from being overweight due to our using a stroller past his 2nd or 3rd b-day.

Leashes are fine for some kids, but not all. They didn't work for us. My son is too active (like his dad). It would have been more of a hazard than anything.

Keep in mind that just because a child might look like they are too old to be in a stroller, it doesn't mean that they are.



As for someone looking like a hillbilly... that ranks right up there with calling someone white trash.

Unless you feel like you look like a hillbilly, you shouldn't take offense. My saying this hillbilly pulled out a boob to breastfeed is not disparaging to women who breastfeed in public. I've noticed women with a baby blanket over their shoulder, a stroller next to them, and can figure they're probably feeding. Doesn't bother me. And I know the baby care center is at the extreme end of Disneyland from Critter Country. But there are benches in quieter locations very close to where she was (including the Hungry Bear Restaurant which has lots of seating, a nice view, and is large enough that you could go to a quiet corner for some privacy).

Oh and here's a more detailed description, which would also fit white trash (while we're at it): She was fat (a good 250+ lb) with greasy hair, huge boob HANGING OUT THE BOTTOM OF HER SHIRT with a kid sucking on the end of it. That is a site I didn't pay to see at Disneyland.

What seems to have happened with parents nowdays is that you think nobody has parented before you. Somehow women in the U.S. in the last 50 years could get around without a car-sized stroller; could breastfeed modestly; and could teach their children to be polite and follow rules without being ridiculed that they were raising stepford children who would jump off a cliff when a friend told them to.

And mousey_girl, speaking of larger children, I know it! My nephew has always been extremely large. Not just tall, but BIG football-player looking shoulders, etc. So while we treated him his age, I know others thought we were babying him.

What seems to have happened with parents nowdays is that you think nobody has parented before you. Somehow women in the U.S. in the last 50 years could get around without a car-sized stroller; could breastfeed modestly; and could teach their children to be polite and follow rules without being ridiculed that they were raising stepford children who would jump off a cliff when a friend told them to.

Actually, this isn't true.

50 years ago, a substantially smaller number of women in this country nursed their children. SUBSTANTIALLY. Among the many reasons why was that society made it very difficult for them to live their lives and nurse their children. My own mother 34 and 32 years ago was heavily discouraged by relatives who didn't want to see her nursing her children. I'm not exaggerating and she wasn't alone. The reason more women visibly nurse children today is because more women are nursing not only because we're being immodest. We just exist.

Another reason that women can nurse in public today is because it's been legislated. It had to be because women who *were* being modest were being told they could not feed their children. Despite the legislation in place, I have been approached by security guards in a local mall when I was quietly nursing my child. I was sitting on a bench, facing away from the public, I did not have a blanket over me, but my shirt and the baby were covering every part of my skin so that not an inch of skin was "exposed" and I was *still* approached.

I'm not intimidatable when it comes to nursing my children anywhere anytime, but I could easily see other women I've met who would've been mortified and never would've done it again.

As for having those managable strollers 50 year ago? Uhm, no they didn't. In fact, they had these big metal clumpy strollers that they couldn't easily pack up in their cars, so when they went to Disneyland, they often rented big clanky metal strollers there. If they went anywhere. Frankly, 50-years ago people stayed home a lot more than they do now. One could argue whether or not that was a better situation. I would argue that it isn't. And in my family, the mothers of my mother and grandmother's generations, think that my fold-up stroller that gives me more "freedom" than they had is terrific. And my mom will tell you that while she's happily pushing our stroller around the mall with me.

As for the stepford children thing: 50 years ago there was a lot more spanking going on and a lot more parenting and discipline that revolved around fear-based motives- I'm afraid of what my parents/teachers will do to me if I don't behave. Also, 50-years-ago, while we're on the subject of schools, misbehaving youths were just not in schools. They often dropped out or were kicked out. In some cases, families and schools have become more accepting of behavior that I would argue is often unacceptable- or they have adopted new methods of managing children. The latter I find more acceptable.

Parenting *is* different today than it was 50-years-ago and many of the 'older' parents I know- of my mother's generation and older- agree with me. I also have a lot of support from them in the choices I've made for my family.

How old are your children? How did you and your spouse feed them? What kind of stroller did you use?

Adrienne

Nope, no young kids. But I don't make assumptions about the fact people did NOT coddle children in a stroller for YEARS like they do now.
If My Mother had the option of a useful stroller 42 years ago, I bet I would've gone out more often when I was 0 - 3. The technological changes are all positive. It's time to adjust the social attitudes.

Oh, and I'm all for breastfeeding - wherever. I'm really glad that women aren't arrested for feeding their child very often - at least not in the "big city". Maybe in Appalacia there is more of an issue.

No. I don't have children either.

I distinctly remember the stroller my parents used for me.

It was metal, the seat was vinyl, the wheels were metal and maybe coated in rubber. The seat had 2 reclining positions, when reclined it was held by 2 metal latches, it had a canopy that was held on by metal latches.

At the time that was one of the best strollers on the market, now it would be considered a hunk of junk. I was a wanderer so I was in a stroller quite a bit. Leashes wern't an option when I was younger. It was far from compact and not easy to fold up.

And this really shouldn't have to be said, but it isn't the size of the stroller, it is the driver behind it. I've been run into by people pushing little umbrella strollers and by people pushing SUV strollers. People using little umbrella strollers have used them as battering rams, not apologizing at all when running into the back of me in a massive crowd, and people driving SUV strollers have apologized fusely when running into me when I accidently cut them off (and yes, I apologized and told them it was my fault and apologized again).

And as for nursing, maybe the woman was never shown how to discretely nurse. There are women who don't have the ability to go to hospitals that give the attention they should to new mothers. You never know what someone was taught or not.

And no, I don't have kids.

Heh I wasn't going to post then I remembered my day at DL today.

1) This lady put her kid in the stroller and told the guy he was 2....sure....I think that little boy needed a shave.(2 is free)

2) This other lady with the double wide SUV stroller came up the handicapped lane of the train stop in New Orleans. I overheard her reasoning why she needed to use the handicap ramp with her ENTIRE family (8). (No she didn't have a GAC). This stroller is [deleted] heavy and if you think I'm gonna fold it and carry it up those stairs I'm gonna scream at the conductor until he gives in. So she brings a super heavy stroller and EXPECTS to get 5 star treatment eh? (As if her whole group had a problem climbing stairs?) /BLEH

PS. Yes the conductoress tried to stop her group, and yes she screamed until the girl let her on.../bleh.

disney magic :)

May I just say, sometimes I want to make a grand, loud announcement as I enter a crowded public place: "I am not a representative of the rude & offensive group of women/parents you have previously encountered in this world! Give me a chance!" I did breastfeed, I want to throw my kids in a stroller sometimes, and I'm also a teacher, so imagine the hostility I garner with these three strikes :geek:

So...I read Adrienne's awesome article about renting strollers, not a minute too soon (we leave for DL 5/29 & budgeted for the strollers), and am wondering if the options are still the same - droopy canvas jog type with limited access to storage and uncomfortable recline?

I was planning to snag two as 'insurance' since my kids are admittedly old enough to go without, but wanted a cozy place for them to rest during lines and parades waits...And I wanted a place to throw water bottles & snacks when the kids were on foot (I will not get involved in the 'fat, lazy kids' debate other than to say I don't think I've ever seen a skinnier 5-year old than my boy, and I bet most of us adults would jump at the chance to be pushed around DL for a little while... :) ).

We're now thinking about borrowing a friend's sit & stand type stroller - it folds pretty easily and is not outrageously heavy. Is it worth waiting at the checked baggage claim?

Thanks, all, for the input!

We're now thinking about borrowing a friend's sit & stand type stroller - it folds pretty easily and is not outrageously heavy. Is it worth waiting at the checked baggage claim?

Thanks, all, for the input!

I'm one of those guys who wishes there was some sort of special ignore function for people without kids who explain how it all used to be "better" in the past when our mothers raised us. They all type the exact same stuff in almost the exact same way and then, when asked, say "no, I don't have kids, but I WAS A KID, it's totally the same thing."

Anyway, as far as your question goes. We are stroller-free (which is great, strollers are necessary, but annoying to use in DL), but we used the sit and stand with our two girls. I prefer it over two strollers.

MY kids are 13 and 16, were breastfed discreetly, and we mostly used the umbrella-type stroller. The "regular" ones were too big to drag everywhere. That's how we felt at the time. But this was also before people started super-sizing everything. Now people seem to feel they can't get along without huge houses, huge cars, huge food, etc.

I don't remember what kind of stroller I rode in as a child, it was too long ago. I know my mom didn't go out with her 4 kids as much as I did. But she didn't use the excuses you use either to whip out a boob in public to feed (because there was no other convenient location). See, you plan ahead . . . you know about when your child is going to be hungry, and you go to a good location to feed. Or you use a pump to have milk ready when you are out in public.

Good for you Adriennek, you seem to know it all. Perhaps as you age, and your children get older, you will realize you didn't know it all. That's what I did. Time will tell how perfect your children are too . . . most children are angels in front of their parents ya know.

Forbin, you are so right. Twice we saw women with strollers waiting for attractions (including the train) at the handicapped entrance. Pissed me off royally! Women have fought so hard to be treated equally, and I think we're losing ground thanks to lazy moms who act like being pregnant and having young children qualifies as a handicap!

HB Tigger Fan, I think it is the size of the stroller AND the driver behind it. Unfortunately its definitely a ME generation who think only of themselves. I don't walk in front of a stroller any more than I would walk in front of a wheelchair. Having many disabled relatives in wheelchairs, I know how hard it is to navigate through a crowd. And wheelchairs don't stop on a dime. On the other hand, quite a few people with strollers expect me to go around them when I'm pushing a wheelchair. Sorry, no!

I didn't notice the stroller issue much before I brought my sister in a wheelchair. And it started right at the gate with the huge one that wouldn't fit through the gate. Some of you seem to have a problem with people noticing parents laziness. Maybe you feel guilty? Since my hubby & kids are able-bodied we can easily walk around strollers, its not a big deal. But for someone in a wheelchair its really a pain. As for Adriennek's statment:
"If my children's occasional imperfections in public bother others, then they probably shouldn't be going places that will expose them to high numbers of children."
A breastfeeding child isn't enjoying Disneyland! They're too young to. You insist on bringing them NOT for their enjoyment, but for yours, a notion which you won't accept. To be a parent is to give up certain activities until a child is old enough to reasonably enjoy them. I understand tourists from other areas bringing small children because they're on vacation. But if you insist on bringing a baby on a regular basis don't say its for the baby's enjoyment. Disney isn't stupid you know. The age they start charging (3) is the age a child is old enough to start enjoying a place such as Disneyland.

But she didn't use the excuses you use either to whip out a boob in public to feed (because there was no other convenient location). See, you plan ahead . . . you know about when your child is going to be hungry, and you go to a good location to feed. Or you use a pump to have milk ready when you are out in public.
This attitude will always amaze me. Women have boobs for the sole purpose of producing milk and feeding their children. That is their primary purpose. Just because they are a subject of sexual titalation does not mean that boobs should not be used for their primary purpose when needed.

I don't get the crazy logic that, since men in general feel breasts are sexual, then babies cannot be fed in public. It's crazy!

Breast feed away, Mothers! Your child will be better for it.

To be a parent is to give up certain activities until a child is old enough to reasonably enjoy them.

That's why we didn't take our kids to see their grandparents, they couldn't reasonably enjoy it.

If you have two kids, I'll eat a bug.

you know about when your child is going to be hungry, and you go to a good location to feed. Or you use a pump to have milk ready when you are out in public.

Good for you Adriennek, you seem to know it all. Perhaps as you age, and your children get older, you will realize you didn't know it all. That's what I did. Time will tell how perfect your children are too . . . most children are angels in front of their parents ya know.

There's no need for personal attacks here. I never said I know it all but I do know it all for me and my family. Like, I know that it was very difficult for me to pump milk with my oldest son. It limited where I could go and how I could go places. So pumping wasn't this doable option for me that it was for your mom. I'm sure that the more babies she had, the more milk she made because that's the way breasts work. Now that I'm on #3 I could see that the ability to pump would be easier. Your mom must've been a really amazing woman because I don't know how I could possibly take care of the other two and pump for my baby.

Nevermind how I would carry around this breastmilk, keep it cool enough but then how did she warm it when she was in public? I'm asking a serious question, by the way. How did she do it? If you have teens, then microwaves weren't readily available, and you can't heat breastmilk in a microwave anyway. Did she take a portable milk warmer with her? So, did you breastfeed your children? Did you pump like your mom did? How did you carry all this stuff on your umbrella stroller?

My children aren't perfect in front of me. They actually behave much better for other people than they do for me. I don't pretend I know everything but I also don't judge other people because they use a big stroller or because they feed their children in public.

As for Adriennek's statment:"If my children's occasional imperfections in public bother others, then they probably shouldn't be going places that will expose them to high numbers of children."
A breastfeeding child isn't enjoying Disneyland! They're too young to. You insist on bringing them NOT for their enjoyment, but for yours, a notion which you won't accept. To be a parent is to give up certain activities until a child is old enough to reasonably enjoy them. I understand tourists from other areas bringing small children because they're on vacation. But if you insist on bringing a baby on a regular basis don't say its for the baby's enjoyment. Disney isn't stupid you know. The age they start charging (3) is the age a child is old enough to start enjoying a place such as Disneyland.

Well, this is a good theory. And even if I follow your theory, I'll be at Disneyland with my infant because my older two are 3 and almost 6, so they're old enough by your standards.

I agree, I've given up a lot of activities because my children are children. But we'll just have to agree to disagree about whether or not Disneyland is appropriate for a baby. There are times when it is and times when it isn't. I do not apologize for my choices. I do not regret taking my babies to Disneyland nor would I tell another parent that he/she was a bad person for doing otherwise.

Adrienne

Not afraid, Re your statement: "...boobs should not be used for their primary purpose when needed." Should I drop my pants in public when I need to go to the restroom? Come on people, common sense and discretion please!

Sorry, I'm not into disgusting reality shows like Fear Factor. If I was I'd meet you and challenge you to eat that bug!

Not afraid, Re your statement: "...boobs should not be used for their primary purpose when needed." Should I drop my pants in public when I need to go to the restroom? Come on people, common sense and discretion please!
Evacuation of your bowels and bladder and much different activities than feeding your child. There is no comparrison.

I guess bottom line is.....if SUV strollers and breast feeding are disgusting to someone, then maybe that person should stay home where there is no threat of viewing a child receive nutrition.

We moved to CA when I was older, but my younger brother was 1. So my mom never breastfed for her AT Disneyland. She was too modest to whip it out anyway. I only did a few times, and didn't spend a full day at the park with babies because it was too tiring. For them AND me! See its not all about me. I thought about my children. I didn't drag them to a place they were too young to enjoy. A babysitter is a great thing, ya know!

Have you ever heard of a diaper bag? Hubby carried that, kid went in the stroller. I don't see as many people with diaper bags anymore, its weird. I guess the stuff just goes in the glovebox of the huge SUV er stroller they drive. When baby #2 came along, #1 was walking (yes, sometimes with a harness/leash) not sitting in a stroller. As others have mentioned, Disneyland is a good place to wear them out. Its always cute to see kids sleeping in the stroller later in the afternoon, worn out by the excitement or just tired. But I also think that means its time to GO. I see many people dragging kids around who are no longer having fun, they're cranky and crying. Those parents are not doing that for the child's sake no matter what they say.