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Pirate Girl
04-19-2004, 12:11 PM
I know this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find the old thread, so I'll just bring it up again:

What are everyone's thoughts on returning to the A - E ticket system? With the recent hikes in AP and park hopper prices, I think it would be benificial to sell Admission tickets for 10-20 dollars less and include a number of tickets (10, 15, whatever). And then charge 2-5 dollars each for extra tickets ($2 for A, $5 for E ect.) That would provide people with greater control over the amount of money they spend. For example, if you can only afford to spend $35 on the ticket, then you use your coupons and that's it. But then if you decide you want to spend an extra 10 or 20 on more tickets, its your option.

Also, have lower traffic and lower staffed areas, as well as all shows be free-no tickets. Places like Tom Sawyers Island, Tarzan's Tree House and Innoventions and The Tiki Room (Although this is E ticket IMHO ;) ) be free for all. Combined with the free show and lower attendance of E ticket rides, this would help disperse the crowds more evenly over the park.

Any thoughts, rants, attacks or other forms of responce? :D

ToursbabeC3po
04-19-2004, 12:18 PM
I think that one admission price is the way to go because where else can you go and get so much entertainment for 50 bucks? (I am guesstimating the price on the high side)
If you go skiing in our local mountains it cost about the same and you don't get as entertained as Disneyland! Not only are there rides but there are shows and the experience. So my opinion is no on the E tickets.

Cadaverous Pallor
04-19-2004, 12:24 PM
It's very hard for me to even conceive of using the old system, as I'm too young to have experienced it.

I can see the benefits, but in my totally lopsided and inexpert opinion, I think a day pass is a much better deal, and easier to deal with, for both park and guest.

Morrigoon
04-19-2004, 12:26 PM
Well, the problem is, Disney would look to the prices of free-standing attractions as a way to price their rides. Taken a ride on the Manhattan Express (NYNY coaster in vegas) lately? I wouldn't want to be shelling out $15 for one ride on space. On the other hand, if that allowed them to lower AP prices to $50 for a premium, we'd be talking.

The problem is, the public outcry from such a decision would be HUGE. Nevermind that it actually benefits parents of small kids, who only make it onto a few rides the entire day. All they will see is that they have to pay "extra" for what used to be included.

Also, you would have to look at the old price structure for the ticket prices. Lowering the admission only $10 would never cut it. You would have to significantly reduce the general admission, but only slightly reduce the admission with the coupon book. My suggestion would be to reduce the with coupons price to $5 less than the cost of buying the old admission plus one additional E-ticket. So, for example, if E-tickets cost $5, then the new with book price should be $40 ($50 now, minus $5, minus the cost of an E-ticket ($5). 50-5-5=40). This way you could sell it to the public saying, sure, we've now limited how many rides you get on in a day, but look you can go on more than the number in the book, and still come out with a $5 discount! Also, they could sell it to the public by making the ride tickets good for a long period of time (as they used to be). This would provide the resort with ample opportunity to get people to spend more in the parks by making repeat visits to use up their ticket books. This would only work, however, if the w/out tickets price was very reasonable, say, $15-$20.

sediment
04-19-2004, 12:57 PM
Thoughts: I don't think it's possible to return to the "carny-style" pay-per-ride system of the past. Biggest problem: People would not come as often. That's "bad" in some way. Second biggest problem: it will be too confusing to the consumer who is leaving his brain at the security checkpoint.
Rants: I cannot believe you'd think this was a good idea! I'm upset, I'm insulted, I'm deeply offended...
Attacks: You silly little PirateGirl! Go back to your "college" and do some studying.... (eh, best I could do.)

Other forms of response: Actually, it is a way to make sure people visit as many different attractions as possible, instead of focusing only on their "favorites." Admission would have to be about $10 in order for this to work, and APs would probably be discontinued. It would make Disneyland unique in the marketplace, which is good for competitive reasons. (Although, it might be bad, for the same competitive reasons.) There are other people who would not want to be "forced" to go to some less popular rides and to pay extra for another ride/sit of their favorites.
The best reason for this system is so that popular rides aren't so crowded, or at least their popularity is internally funded properly by TDA via tickets collected. This would mean that alternative forms of admission (pay for all, APs, etc.) would have to be eliminated.
The best reason against this system is that people don't want to have to choose anymore. "Brain at security checkpoint" mentality. A lot more complaints, etc. It would create more headaches than it would feed the bottom line. It would provide TDA with ammunition to eliminate certain attractions and replace them with Pooh-level attractions. More headaches, more complaints.
Final thought: System now, overall with all variables taken into account, is better

sediment
04-19-2004, 01:05 PM
Also, it would be nearly impossible to convert the AP's. I'm trying to come up with an equitable way to do it. TDA would have to provide one-year notice, halt sales -- or convert to "Pass-Until-Ticket-Book"-type of pass, and generally get the word out.
TDA could also go back the way they came in: stop AP renewals for a year, then stop the all-attractions-passes. Step 1 would be tough, to say the least.

Pirate Girl
04-19-2004, 01:45 PM
Rants: I cannot believe you'd think this was a good idea! I'm upset, I'm insulted, I'm deeply offended...
Attacks: You silly little PirateGirl! Go back to your "college" and do some studying.... (eh, best I could do.)


:fez: :fez:

3894
04-19-2004, 01:59 PM
Not to mention the paper waste.

Quinten27
04-19-2004, 02:07 PM
I personally prefer the way it is. I wouldn't want to worry that we don't have enough tickets to do this or to do that, it seems like an added head ache I don't need. If I want to pay per ride, I can go to the state fair. If I want to pay one price and be able to do whatever I want, I'll go to Disneyland.

Also, I doubt Disney would ever go along with the plan. Why would they implement a system where they are getting less money for admission? They would have to work it so they are still making atleast the same amount of money off people, if not even more. Making the changes would be fairly costly, especially just trying to advertise the new system and getting people to understand it, and Disney isn't going to spend money to save us money. They're only gonna spend the money if it will make them more money.

Disney Vault
04-19-2004, 02:29 PM
i would hate it. its one of the reasons i hate fairs and carnivals.

sediment
04-19-2004, 02:29 PM
:fez: :fez:
You asked for it, and I gave what I could muster.
Arr.

150cc
04-19-2004, 02:30 PM
A day pass is fundamentally a better deal.

If you're going to, say, charge $4 for an E-ticket, and $3 for a D, and $2 for a C, and so forth (and maybe have free attractions), then you're opening the door to a guy who wants to come to the park, shell out $10 so he can ride a few things, and then go home.

You'd make more money just making everyone fork over $50 at the door and then having them ride what they want.

Besides... it'd be a logistical problem, implementing the "ticket" system all over again. Guests already have Fastpasses. Tickets, on top of that, would be a little much.

Morrigoon
04-19-2004, 03:17 PM
Here's a wrinkle: simultaneously doing both!

DL could raise the all-attractions ticket price, while simultaneously implementing a ticketbook/admission deal.

Here's how it works: When you come to an attraction, you either hand over your E-ticket, or show the CM your AP/catchall pass. There could be some infrastructure requirement here, which would help cut down on abuse: the new A-E tickets could all be printed with a barcode, similar to how the admission media are today. A scanner near the boarding point would read the tickets and either keep them, or in the case of an all-day, spit them back out, releasing a mechanism on the turnstile to allow the guest to proceed. There would be a CM at that point to assist in any difficulty, and who would probably handle inserting the tickets into the scanner. Should a guest manage to get up to that point w/out the proper ticket (the greeter CM, just as w/fastpass, should be checking for these), they would be allowed to exit a side gate. The nice thing is, this way, parents could accompany their kids in line, even if they do not intend to ride themselves. Guests with a catchall pass would recieve their pass back after the scanning.

In this way, Disneyland could simultaneously charge both less and more. They could raise the price of the catchall pass right when they implement the ticket book system. Guests who wish to come in only to shop and eat pay a nominal price (possibly increasing the number of guests in the park as well as money spent on food and merch, as it's now more "worth it" for non-riding guests to accompany the rest of their family on such a trip). Guests with small children who won't be able to get on much anyway reduce the cost of their trip, as well as the stress of getting "their money's worth" of rides in. Guests who intend to ride a lot, putting additional stress on the attractions, pay for it.

The more I think about this, the more my position is changing here.... why not bring back the ticket books (simultaneously)? They could offer a catchall premium AP, an admission-only AP, and a hybrid AP which consists of an admission AP and a large ticket book.

sleepyjeff
04-19-2004, 06:24 PM
I second Morrigoons idea.

Pirate Girl
04-19-2004, 06:31 PM
See, once you think about it, you realize the sheer brilliance of the idea! ;)

SCUBAbe
04-19-2004, 06:50 PM
I loved when they had both systems in play. We always bought the day pass, but people could still use their tickets. Things like the cars on main street were never very packed, because people didn't want to spend a ticket on them or pay the change...I think 20 cents back then.

I like the day pass now though. it makes more sense. I also don't mind when they raise the prices, because it keeps some of the troublemakers out. I went to Magic Mountain last year and it was just scary...even knotts berry farm gest some odd people during the bring a toy get in free....I can't tell you how much I enjoyed shopping in the stores watching parents instruct their children on how to shoot people with play guns...(the only reason we went is because my husbans woork gave him tickets and he hates amusement parks. Yes even Disney...especially disney. He says it's just for kids...LOL...at least he thinks I'm young..or at least young at heart.. :)

sleepyjeff
04-19-2004, 09:24 PM
Just for fun:

Ticket only prices:

A-TIK = .75 cents
B-TIK = $1.25
C-TIK = $1.75
D-TIK = $2.25
E-TIK = $3.00


Admission only 1-day = $19.00

Admission(1 day) +11tickets(1A,1B,2C,3D, & 4E) = $38.00

Admission(2 days) + 20 tickets(2A,3B,4C,5D, & 6E) = $63.00

Admission(1 day) with unlimited attraction access = $55.00

Admission(2 days) with unlimited attraction access = $85.00

Admission only annual pass = $89.00

Admission (annual pass) + 55 tickets(10A,10B,10C,10D, & 15E) = $149.00

Admission (annual pass) + 100 tickets(10A,15B,20C,25D, & 30E) = $205.00

Admission (annual pass) + unlimited attraction access all year = $475.00

Pirate Girl
04-19-2004, 10:17 PM
Just for fun:

Ticket only prices:

A-TIK = .75 cents
B-TIK = $1.25
C-TIK = $1.75
D-TIK = $2.25
E-TIK = $3.00


Admission only 1-day = $19.00

Admission(1 day) +11tickets(1A,1B,2C,3D, & 4E) = $38.00

Admission(2 days) + 20 tickets(2A,3B,4C,5D, & 6E) = $63.00

Admission(1 day) with unlimited attraction access = $55.00

Admission(2 days) with unlimited attraction access = $85.00

Admission only annual pass = $89.00

Admission (annual pass) + 55 tickets(10A,10B,10C,10D, & 15E) = $149.00

Admission (annual pass) + 100 tickets(10A,15B,20C,25D, & 30E) = $205.00

Admission (annual pass) + unlimited attraction access all year = $475.00

Hey Mikey, I think she likes it!

myron61090
04-20-2004, 06:12 AM
as much as the idea seems brilliant and money making, i think that they shouldn't do it (take note, i do not work for disney, therefore i only think about MYSELF and i don't really care for disney's income as of the moment)

i kinda like the idea of paying to get in disneyland then leaving all your problems behind, even financial problems and only having to whip out the cash every now and then for food souveniers etc. i think the fun factor of disneyland will greatly reduce when you have to spen somepart of the day planning on how to "spend" your tickets. it kinda takes away the whole leave all your problems and brains behind idea of disneyland...

as for my comment above, i would gladly pay for the increase in the price of admission tickets with no complaints ONLY IF i was assured that the money went to the right places such as the refurbishing of rides and the upkeep of the landscaping and environment. but since i pay a lot o' money to get in and there is not much improvement in the quality of disney land.... i will pay more... BUT I WILL COMPLAIN! :fez:

NirvanaMan
04-20-2004, 08:58 AM
Feels like playland to me. That was the local amusement park near where I lived growing up located in Rye, NY. Rides were done on tickets. Very cheap carnival feel to it. I definitely think it's a terrible way to go. Constantly having to check if you have enough tickets to go on ride X, keeping track of all of those little tickets so you don't lose them. I'd much rather pay a fee once and be done with it.

HBTiggerFan
04-20-2004, 09:10 AM
I can see the City Hall lines now, full of people complaining that they lost their tickets somewhere. People are confused enough when they come to Disneyland. Where do I go? What is FastPass? How do I put my ticket in the FP machine? What I needed to keep my admission ticket for FP and to get back in the park??

I also think it would add a cheap feel to the park.

iwannabeanimagineer
04-20-2004, 09:26 AM
The problem is, the public outcry from such a decision would be HUGE. Nevermind that it actually benefits parents of small kids, who only make it onto a few rides the entire day. All they will see is that they have to pay "extra" for what used to be included.
I don't see this as a downside because Disney can still sell package deals for a price similar to a passport with enough tickets to last for the visit. In the old days they had Kingdom Key tickets that were good for any attraction.

On the whole, I think the A-E ticket scheme has the following advantages:
1. Reduced wait times (advantage to guests and less hassle for Cast Members).
2. More guests on the streets buying food and souvenirs without any impact on wait times (advantage to Disney, but may increase the perception of crowding to guests).
3. More leisurely pace and overall less crowding due to the fact that the guests already "own" so many rides, not so many hours in the park (advantage to guests and less hassle for Cast Members).
4. Greater ability to judge the return-on-investment of any given attraction (advantage to Disney, but may result in the demise of some of our favorites which may not be popular enough to warrant their maintenance and operations budgets).
5. You can always hang onto your leftover tickets for your next visit (advantage to guests and to Disney since guests have pre-paid for a service Disney may not have to provide for weeks, years or ever...In fact, I think my Dad still has a file folder full of them.)
6. Issuing tickets for less-popular rides would increase guests' willingness to ride them in order to get full value out of their purchase (advantage to Disney and to those of us who want to see old favorites preserved).
7. Greater accessibility for people who want to spend less than the current admission prices (advantage to guests and to Disney if those people spend more on food and t-shirts).

Disadvantages:
1. Handling all the tickets is a hassle. Hey, what if each guest were issued a credit card that was encoded with their admission pass and all the A-E tickets they have purchased? They could wear it on a lanyard to avoid losing it, keep it as a souvenir, re-charge it during the visit if they run out of tickets and Disney could use it like a grocery store discount card to collect and mine data on guest preferences and use patterns.

The best reason against this system is that people don't want to have to choose anymore. "Brain at security checkpoint" mentality. A lot more complaints, etc. It would create more headaches than it would feed the bottom line. It would provide TDA with ammunition to eliminate certain attractions and replace them with Pooh-level attractions. More headaches, more complaints.
I don't understand this point very well, so please forgive me if my comment is irrelevant. I think people are forced to choose already. Single day admission or Park Hopper? How many days? DCA or DL? Matterhorn or Indy? Burgers or Blue Bayou? Reservations or not? T-shirt or postcard? Parade or ride? The possible elimination of attractions may not be as dire as predicted due to the fact that holding a ticket for Small Worlds may prompt more people to ride it. Also, maybe some of us need to learn to let go of attractions that are nostalgic for us but not contributing overall to the experience for the average guest.

I also think it would add a cheap feel to the park.
Just because we associate a string of paper tickets with sleazy greazy carnivals (Dad's expression) doesn't mean that feel will transfer to DL. In the 60's and 70's, the tickets were very nicely printed, professionally designed, with a feel something like currency. A charged-up credit card scheme would lack the charm of the old tickets but could avoid the negative associations with cheap amusements.

sediment
04-20-2004, 10:34 AM
Re my quote: It wouldn't be a ticket only to Small World. It would Small World, OR Peter Pan, OR Alice, or TeaCups, OR...
If you had 5 C tickets and 6 C rides, something would not be ridden, or it would cost more. Choice: pay for another ticket or not? Currently there is no choice like this, except in terms of time. Yeah, time is money.

The "electronic ticket book" idea is a good one. That would be the obvious solution in today's world. Ticket books are sooooo 1970s. And I mean that's not a good thing.

Pirate Girl
04-20-2004, 11:25 AM
Not to mention the paper waste.

Plus, the credit card idea would eliminate 3894's precious paper waste! ;)

olegc
04-20-2004, 11:25 AM
I am on the fence on this whole ticket re-issue - and have debated with the likes of Kevin Yee and MIchele Smith on the benefits and drawbacks. but first of all - all of you who have speculated on the cost of an e-ticket are low. You should consider what it costs to ride a FULLY THEMED ADVENTURE - not simply the best roller coaster like at a carnival (ok - DCA may have to stoop to this level).

SO - the price should be around $5 per - maybe a little higher. That's just my opinion based on what VALUE can be derived from say a one-time, this is the best experience of my life value proposition for attractions. Remember - they would not price it per se to a point for someone to ride multiple times. it's for a typical family day at the park.

One thing I think why this will never happen in the short term is that American corporations have an aversion to drastic price reductions for anything. So - if they can come up with a way to keep the admission at $49 (or maybe reduce to $45) while actually increasing a one-day passport to $79 or more - they'd do it.

Also - don't forget that they would have to recoup their investment in re-establishing the card readers per ride, the training involved in getting CMs to know how to reset or retry a card reader, computer systems to calculate all of this, etc. THis is not cheap - it's just hidden from your view as a guest of the park.

How many times have you had to swipe your credit or ATM card at the market and it does not work? Not that often but it happens. So now, do that at a theme park, with 45K in attendance, and many of them not able to speak english. You do the math. This would most likely mean and up front increase in labor for the park until all the kinks are gone - which could be a year.

So - you have labor, infrastructure, training, cost of materials, and processing - and this is just for the new stuff - not for general upkeep of the park and the attractions itself. Be careful what you wish for - because I see a large price increase in order to create this wonderful world of choice.