You can't help but see Alex Stroup's thread (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26552) about putting all gay topics on hiatus for awhile. It's stuck at the top of the Lounge for all to see. As a moderator he has the power to do that. That's okay with me. But the decision to do it is not.

Gay topics here on MP are dead horse issues. Yes. But now we're left with the dead horse in our lounge and we're supposed to ignore it. That's harder to do because said horse is starting to get ripe.

Let's say someone decided to have religion topics on hiatus. That would cause a huge backlash here. So much so that I am positive that the decision would be reversed quickly. I suspect that there isn't going to be a backlash about banning gay threads (no matter how long) but that doesn't mean it's right.

The moderators can do whatever they want, yes, it's not a democracy, no, there isn't necessarily freedom of speech here but are all of these things helping this to be a friendly welcoming board?

I have put myself on hiatus before because of the 'gay threads' and how much they infuriated me. I put myself on a time out to compose myself and my beliefs. But now, the choice to even participate in a conversation about gay issues is gone. That is disappointing and scary to me.

I have a high respect for the moderating team. I have learned a great deal from all of them. However, it's disturbing to be told by one or two of them not to talk about yourself. Everything I post here is written and posted by a gay man. I can not separate the fact of me being homosexual from what I post.

Therefore, I'm not going to post anything any more until the ban is lifted.

I would prefer the over-zealously supportive posts and the overly negative posts to being ignored completely. I've come too far out of the closet to be placed back into it, into the dark.

GC, I can't say I agree.

What the admins are saying is "if you can't behave, you can't play." It takes a lot of their time and energy to keep up with out shenanigans, and this was just too much for them to deal with.

We are here merely by their good graces. If they got really sick of dealing with our crap they could simply shut the site down and put everyone in a "time out" for a week.

I'm glad they are still willing to put up with us and our annoying intensity. :)

Thanks to everyone that keeps this place in line. If they want a time out, I'll cooperate, no problem.

IMO, you are not being asked to deny who you are:
We are all being asked, to not start threads which could possibly inflame other posters.
None of us are being singled out.
Personally, to say that someone will not post until the ban is lifted seems... uncalled for.

I will be sorry to see you go, and wish that you would reconsider. This doesnt seem to me the way to handle the decision of the mods.

As with many other things in my life, I feel that the board is a privledge not a right. And as such, I treat is as I want it to treat me.

I never thought I would support something like this, GC, and I am nowhere near happy or comfortable with it.

But short of a mass banning, it was the only option. Closing threads has always worked as a sign that it is time to move on or move back to the core topic and civil behavior.

After I closed the gay thread a couple of days ago, it was mere minutes before the next once was opened and not long before the exact same rut was there.

Honestly, if there is an appropriate topic and "gayness" is an appropriate aspect of the topic, I'm not going to immediately shut it down. But, if the board can't live for a few days without discussing the morality/acceptability of homosexuality or whatever, then the only alternative is a large culling of the membership.

I would really like to avoid that and this is the only way I can think of.

Originally posted by Gemini Cricket
Let's say someone decided to have religion topics on hiatus. That would cause a huge backlash here. So much so that I am positive that the decision would be reversed quickly. I suspect that there isn't going to be a backlash about banning gay threads (no matter how long) but that doesn't mean it's right. GC, this may mean little to you, but I can ASSURE you that the subject matter in question is not the reason the topic has been put on hiatus. And yes, had last year's religion thread marathon reached these levels, that topic would have been placed on hiatus as well.

Alex declared a hiatus because there were FOUR threads in the past 10 days which had to be closed for identical reasons, and it is clear that this subject is not one which the membership can debate at this time without resorting to personal attacks. Just as when I put one of the threads on a 10-minute hiatus last week, this is just an effort by the mods to create a cooling-off period.

The subject could have been about Peeps, or Atkins, or Churros. When this many people prove that they cannot civily discuss a particular topic - no matter what it is - we have to step in.

AVP

As one passionately involved in all four "shut down" threads (and I believe on the same "side" as you GC), I have to agree with the mods decision..
We WERE warned, yet the same behavior continued
There WERE personal attacks
NOTHING new has been said in a long time.
For the most part, its usually the same players
I firmly believe that these topics were not shut down because of the subject matter: it was strictly an issue of the attacks (from both sides). And I just spent several minutes spot checking and I don't think you (GC) made any inflammatory posts - kudos to you for that!

I hope you lift your self-imposed hiatus. I've always enjoyed your posts and like having you as a member of the community.

Originally posted by Kevy Baby
NOTHING new has been said in a long time..

I disagree with this part......

I think the last of the closed gay threads - the one with no religion at the request of the OP - had hit upon some new stuff.

Choice or not a choice? Talked about prison populations where a large number of inmates "convert" - and that this perhaps happens in other environment where it is primarily single gender.

Genetics - natural selection, environmental factors coming into play, etc.

Are bisexuals still discriminated against if gay marriage is permitted.

I also made a couple new friends, even though we disagree.

i don't recall those things in any of the "gay" threads, and I've been around about a year now.

I'll miss Gemini Cricket, especially since it seems like he was just on a hiatus. But, no matter what the reason, everyone takes a break now and then, and hopefully it will be a short one.

Originally posted by AVP
The subject could have been about Peeps, or Atkins, or Churros. When this many people prove that they cannot civily discuss a particular topic - no matter what it is - we have to step in.
I suppose that's theoretically true. But we all know the next time this happens, it's not going to be about Peeps.

It's going to be about Kerry v. Bush. It's going to be about terrorism. It's going to be about renewal of the Patriot Act. It's going to be about abortion.

And it's going to be about gay marriage.


So what are you going to do about it? Ban all real-world topics? Prohibit discussion of actual concerns beyond Disneyland and what kind of shampoo people use?


I've heard the concept of "cull the membership" tossed about a lot by a moderator or two over the past 24 hours. This is outrageous!!! Some of us may not be the choir of angels, but is it seriously under consideration that the fictitious MousePad civil rights of the likes of Toxic Risk, Snappy Jo, Fairytalelover and their ilk are worth protecting so much that you're going to put decent, respectable, law-abiding but humanweakness-prone padders out of business?

I have no idea what can be going on in the rarified world of the moderators to even suggest such a thing, and to fail to recognize that these people are trolls who just cannot play well with others.

These people have an agenda. They want to sow discord. They want to destroy MousePad. Is this cull the herd idea somehow supposed to beat them to it?

Originally posted by innerSpaceman
These people have an agenda. They want to sow discord. They want to destroy MousePad.

Don't figure I have to say it, but I'll say it anyway. I'm not a moderator or admin, just a participant expressing my thoughts.

I agree that people have an agenda (most people do, even if the "agenda" is to have fun), though I don't necessarily agree that certain people want to destroy MousePad as I have no knowledge of their intentions. I will agree that some people seem to want to sow discord. However, that doesn't mean that others have to reap it. If they sow discord and no one reaps it, the discord will die.

Well, I for one (and I hope I don't get into trouble for this) fully support GC's decision. There may have been some slight name-calling or mild flaming by a handful of posters but it wasn't an all out war, at least compared to every other board I've been to.

I believe that it is wrong and very problematic to censor an entire group of people simply because they feel passionately about a subject. If we are only supposed to post topics that we discuss in subdued tones, without any emotion or feeling, then this board has become very sadly milquetoast.

I get the feeling that, lately, the "powers that be" have moved toward making these boards more utopian and free of any possible conflict, great or small, and almost homogenized. I half expect Soylent Green to be handed out and V-chips implanted in us all. (That was a joke, BTW. ) I can't remember ever seeing so many threads being locked so frequently, and some of them just really mystified me as to why. That is the Mod's prerogative, but it does cause me to raise an eyebrow.

In the end, I know, it isn't up to us to decide how to conduct ourselves and the boards will be run how they are run, but I do wish there was a little less (what I see as) babysitting and coddling. We're adults (for the most part) and I think we have thick enough skins to survive the occasional "flesh wound" without needing protection or shielding. But that's just my opinion.

P.S.
I do not believe that any of the Mods are evil, mean or "bad" in any way. They obviously have their hands full and do quite an admirable job with these boards. They always have. I just haven't agreed with a few decisions lately, as is my right, and can't help but wonder if (and I say this with deepest regards for them) perhaps they may need to take turns stepping back and taking breathers. I'm sure this can all be overwhelming at times and I'd hate to see anyone become jaded.

Originally posted by innerSpaceman
I have no idea what can be going on in the rarified world of the moderators to even suggest such a thing, and to fail to recognize that these people are trolls who just cannot play well with others.

Hey. You. Mister.

You know you are my friend and I adore you, but I'm going to step in here and just see if we can't let the issue go until AT LEAST until after MA. I KNOW that all of the Mods are very busy preparing this event. I'm sure things are pretty stressful right now without having board issues. Remember, we post for fun and friendship. The Mods and Admins HAVE to read all of our drivel and I'm sure it's not fun.

Let's just let things sit for a while and we can ALL get our thoughts together. I don't think anything anybody says right now is going to make a difference at the moment and it could possibly cause a lot of pain and anger in the long run.

You don't have to listen to me. I'm not going to disown you (duh), but please, at least consider letting it go for now.

I'm actually not just talking to IsM, I'm talking to everyone. But, that's too big of a request to think everyone will agree.

So, we can resume after MA IF it is necessary. OK?

To be honest, the utter denial and doubletalk of certain posters regarding their own actions in the aftermath of this is justification enough for the move, in my eyes. I know I've been guilty in the past of contributing to VERY conscious and premeditated efforts to bait a poster into being banned. And I know that some of the people protesting the most have been involved in same.

I personally made an effort to stay out of this most recent round. I responded to a couple of the inflamatory posts, but I did everything I could to address the content, and completely ignore the name calling. I can think of one instance where I acknowledged what I felt to be a particularly inappropriate post, and after that I walked away. I did report a couple posts, but it's something I do RARELY, and I felt what I reported were clear-cut instances of defamatory content.

As someone who spends a LOT of time, here, I'm going to welcome a little bit of a breather myself. It was getting VERY frustrating to deal with the daily battle of deciding what to read and not reading, knowing that certain things were going to get my ire up. And the more frustrated we all got, the more the flames were fanned, and the closer I came to crossing even my own personal line. The contoversial topic ball was rolling downhill and picking up momentum. At the bare minimum, this will reset all of our tollerance levels and let us get back to discussing these topics with level heads, instead of going in with our annoyance radars on full blast.

I'm just taking the opportunity to do some introspection, and hopefully come out the other side with thicker skin. I think others should do the same.

Originally posted by Not Afraid
So, we can resume after MA IF it is necessary. OK?

Yes Mamn. ;)

Now I can work on team stuff. (All 2 of us!) ;)

Originally posted by innerSpaceman
So what are you going to do about it? Ban all real-world topics? Prohibit discussion of actual concerns beyond Disneyland and what kind of shampoo people use?

Based on my past experience on other boards, I wonder if this is, in fact, where this could lead. I have participated in the past on boards that did end up severely restricting the topics in sections like "The Lounge" or even eliminating any section like that altogether. Sometimes, I have seen those actions taken to try and retain a certain amount of decorum within the population of the boards. At other times, I've seen it done simply because the sheer volume of posts generated by allowing off-topic discussions on political/social issues have started taking away resources from the intended topic of the boards. To be honest, this "hiatus" is actually pretty generous compared to what I have typically seen. Most boards go directly to an outright ban and also do not allow the decision to be debated publicly, as it has been in this section.

Let's not forget that this board is primarily intended for discussions of Disney. It isn't a political round-table or a general issues board. The owners and moderators of this board have been very generous in allowing, and even encouraging, off-topic discussions in the interest of accommodating the very admirable sense of community that has formed here. I don't think it is unreasonable for them to expect the participants here to at least try not to abuse that privilege.

I certainly can't speak for the moderators, but I can easily see the big concerns here. With the exception of a few short-term hot topics like the recent shareholder's meeting, the threads being discussed right now almost always generate a much larger volume of posts than any of the Disney topics. The very nature of those discussions can also make it more difficult to maintain the family-friendly standards that the owners of this site have long emphasized as well.

Moderating and maintaining these boards is something that I understand the moderators do in their spare time and if the heavy issue discussions are taking up an excessive amount of that time, that does take away from their ability to monitor and encourage the Disney-related discussions, which were presumably their reason for getting involved with this board to begin with. Anyone who has used these boards during peak hours also knows that their hosting/bandwidth resources have been pretty strained as well, and I can imagine that those heated discussions exasperate that issue as well.

Basically, my point here is that these are Disney boards and I'm not really sure we have the right to expect them to accommodate discussions on other topics. The fact that they do is a privilege that should be appreciated and not taken advantage of.

-Jeff

Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
To be honest, the utter denial and doubletalk of certain posters regarding their own actions in the aftermath of this is justification enough for the move, in my eyes. I know I've been guilty in the past of contributing to VERY conscious and premeditated efforts to bait a poster into being banned. And I know that some of the people protesting the most have been involved in same.



Right. It's like my kids using certain tactics to get what they want. When that doesn't work, they howl in protest. The mistake was mine, to let the tactics work even once (or more), but it doesn't mean continuing to make the same mistakes is a good idea for me.

Eventually, though, they come back into line (usually with new tactics, but I deal with them as they come up.) Now, certainly, some people might leave, because of the horror of not being able to talk about gay marriage or what a bastard Bush is or whatever. People leave all the time. New people come. And, let's be frank, the people whining about this decision aren't going anywhere.

Originally posted by Not Afraid
see if we can't let the issue go until AT LEAST until after MA. I KNOW that all of the Mods are very busy preparing this event. I'm sure things are pretty stressful right now without having board issues. Remember, we post for fun and friendship. The Mods and Admins HAVE to read all of our drivel and I'm sure it's not fun.
Good points from NotAfraid and others. Although certain mods have emphatically denied that MouseAdventure or VB upgrades have anything to do with moderator resources, I still think this is a particularly poor time for strain on the Pad.

As I've already said, I have no problem with this time-out / breather / break. I have concerns about the longer-term problems implied and with the potential solutions suggested. I have expressed those concerns. I am done now.

Just for the record, I want to state that I have never posted with the conscious desire to bait someone into being banned. I think that the people I would pull such a stunt with are perfectly capable of being banned on their own without any help from me. And I am always willing to throw myself in front of the oncoming ban train rather then lure anyone else there.

And so, before that happens (i.e., perhaps before any mods wake up this morning) and in the spirit of the breather that my good friend NotAfraid suggests I take, I am going on hiatus.

It's not necessarily a protest hiatus, though I am inspired by my brother conscience, Gemini Cricket, and I support his position on this. Things have heated up, they need to cool down. At least for me.

I'll see you all at M.A., and hopefully back on the Pad someday.

Au revoir.

Originally posted by The Jazzman
I believe that it is wrong and very problematic to censor an entire group of people simply because they feel passionately about a subject. If we are only supposed to post topics that we discuss in subdued tones, without any emotion or feeling, then this board has become very sadly milquetoast.

It's entirely possible to have a passionate and even heated discussion about a particular topic without resorting to name-calling and anything else that breaks the rules that have been set up here, rules that each of us agreed to abide by when we joined. I've done it, and I've seen it done many times by countless people, here and on other boards. On a particular mailing list I was on, there was a long, fairly involved and passionate discussion about various religions. And it was great to be able to read that, to get lots of information, and for no one to resort to any kind of name-calling. It's possible - it just takes more work.

Originally posted by innerSpaceman
of the likes of Toxic Risk, Snappy Jo, Fairytalelover and their ilk are worth protecting so much that you're going to put decent, respectable, law-abiding but humanweakness-prone padders out of business?

I have no idea what can be going on in the rarified world of the moderators to even suggest such a thing, and to fail to recognize that these people are trolls who just cannot play well with others.

Pause. Turn around. There's the line you just crossed.

I hope you got what pleasure you could out of forcing our hand.


For everybody else, it doesn't matter if you are eventually proven correct. Do not call people trolls.

Originally posted by innerSpaceman
Although certain mods have emphatically denied that MouseAdventure or VB upgrades have anything to do with moderator resources, I still think this is a particularly poor time for strain on the Pad.You make it sound like we're lying. a) Only one or two of the staff is involved in the actual vB upgrades, and b) Only three of the staff is involved in MouseAdventure prep right now (and of the three, only 1.5 is devoting a lot of time to it). So no, please everyone stop using MouseAdventure as the reason why we're busy. It's your (generic, not specific) posts that take up our time.

Thank you.

Lani,

Now that the hiatus on Gay Topics is over, I'd like to ask you if you would kindly lock this thread.

I would like to move on and happily resume my Disney dorkiness.

:fez:

Thanks in advance,

Brad, aka Gemini Cricket, aka GC, aka DisneyLad, aka Doc

Originally posted by Gemini Cricket
Now that the hiatus on Gay Topics is over, I'd like to ask you if you would kindly lock this thread.Ask, and ye shall receive.

*Poof*

Done!