I was told by some very good sources that it looks like the SAP program at the DLR will more closely resemble the WDW version starting in January...

I am mentioning it for those of you doing Vacation Planning. I would put "get a note from my Doctor" on that list of things to do, so you won't run into problems during your trip....

There is no doctor's note required here at WDW.

They do differentiate between the types of accommodations needed. If anything, this will make for more annoyance for the cast members, as they have to read through the individual stamps or print to determine what accommodation to allow. I'm sorry to see it happen. It hardly seems necessary at Disneyland, compared to WDW.

In Today's (12/8/04) Al Lutz' update...

http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al120903a.htm

As the whole system spiraled out of control over the past several years, SAP lines at the major rides grew to incredible lengths, and more and more Park customers gained a snippy sense of entitlement that they deserved such a courtesy, the old TDA executives stuck their heads in the sand and refused to admit there was a problem. But the new TDA team has pledged that they will tackle this problem quickly, and that Disneyland will regain a great deal of control over who gets a pass in the first place, and then just exactly what it does and does not entitle the holder to in the second place.

Ok, I love it here on the pad, so I'm going to play very much IN the rules and save my friends the admin and mods the trouble of sending me "the letter" .......

1) The article on MiceAge doesn't seem to have the 'current' standards at WDW correct because according to our own padder Teri, another mom very very informed and aware of SAP issues, recently posted that the standards and proceedures at WDW were recently adjusted to be more in line with those at Disneyland

2) "snippy sense of entitlement" Ok here is where I'd be soooo "on an enforced cooling off period" if I allowed my emotions to flow at the moment, There are more threads than I am willing to go link (where is Dexter and his skills right now :geek: ) about the abuse of the SAP. We all know it's a problem and guess what, it was a problem BEFORE 2/3 of the world started getting on the net and reading Disney fan sites. I can recount more 'experiences' than we have bandwidth for of kids renting wheelchairs to skip the lines, seeing groups of people 'switching out' riders/pushers to be able to 'line jump' People going in and asking for the actual S.A.P. pass and coming out of City Hall rejoicing with their friends that they "pulled it off".

What you will RARELY ever ever see, is a family that actually NEEDS the use of the program acting 'entitled' or snippy. We can't stop the abuse by others anymore than we can stop those folks that look a CM in the eye and say "no sir, he's only 2 he won't be 3 til his next birthday....as they walk their 5 year old thru the gates to save that ticket price. Cheaters are cheaters and they are the ones that are most likely to get 'snippy' when they have failed in their mission to "line jump".

Those of us who utilitze the program correctly, incorperate both the use of Fast pass andthe access to easier boarding for our family members and we most assuredly are grateful that the program exists. I've been using the program for over 10 years and I'll admit there are the occasional "the world owes me" types along with the 'cheaters' but they are sooooo much in the miniority I resent being the majority of us being "lumped" into that description.

Ok, out of respect for Ak and the others that would be forced to smack me, I'm stepping back for now.


Edited to add: (ok so I told a fib I'm not stepping back quite yet)


IF the SAP program has grown, blame ADA! Thanks to ADA more and more families are becoming aware that they can in fact take their loved ones to the parks, and have access to the attractions. This is not 1955 where special needs family members were hidden away and something to be ashamed of. We have fought for the rights of the special needs/physically challenged population HARD over the last 2 decades and more and more people are becoming aware of the access availability so of course that means that the program is going to 'increase'. Disney finally started adressing the needs and these families are starting to utilize the programs for the enjoyment of their entire family....

ok now going to go get something cool to drink!

As a mom with a special needs kid...

I ditto what Mammasilva said!! :D

I took a break. I also wrote to Al, and I let him know that he does not have his story straight. Mammasilva is right on the money here.

If alternate access lines are long, it isn't because people are entitled or cheating. what kind of logic is that????? My gosh... sometimes we wait longer than people in the standby line! I have seen many people turned down at Guest Services at both Disneyland and Disney World. The real problems come about when people do not know how and when to use the pass, and that is not their fault.

Cheaters - the real ones - deserve the ire. It is just wrong to blame people who need the SAP for the lines being long. People with disabilities and special needs just need a break to make their recreation time possible. Folks who are not dealing with disabilities on a minute-by-minute basis can run around and do all kinds of things that we cannot, and after it is over they are not in the state of exhaustion that we are. We have to work harder just to BE there.

But then there is the other wrinkle: people who have a genuine need for an SAP abusing it. Working my attraction, I can tell you there is one specific guy who has an SAP, clearly needs it, but seems to think that it means he should be able to keep reriding and constantly jumping in front of non-SAP guests. And unless there's an SAP line, there's nothing we can do to stop or discourage it. But it really sucks for the guests who are still waiting to go once, doesn't it?

(on the bright side, this is fairly rare and generally limited to a few individuals)

Originally posted by Morrigoon
(on the bright side, this is fairly rare and generally limited to a few individuals)

I think this is the very important distinction.

Adrienne

Originally posted by Morrigoon
But then there is the other wrinkle: people who have a genuine need for an SAP abusing it.

(on the bright side, this is fairly rare and generally limited to a few individuals)


Well, I don't know 'official' policy on this but I have seen it happening on both Indy and Splash, my take on it, since the people don't have the decency to respect the program.....they should have a 'wait time' in effect before using their pass again. The approximate length of the standby would be fair. I know the year Indy opened, they actually did write times on the back of the SAP which was more than fine with us, but I did hear other people wondering about the change in policy.

Originally posted by MammaSilva
I know the year Indy opened, they actually did write times on the back of the SAP which was more than fine with us, but I did hear other people wondering about the change in policy.

That's actually happened more recently than that. Soon after the Winnie the Pooh ride opened at DL, I remember going on it, and I needed to use an SAP that day. When I got to the CM, he wrote on the back of my SAP with the designation of the ride and the time and mentioned something about not being able to use the SAP again on that ride until a certain amount of time had passed. (I forget what that interval was.) I remember thinking that was a good idea.

Sure, putting a date/time on the SAP for specific busy rides is a good idea. At Disneyland they did that for Splash and Winnie, as I recall. I would not ride a ride twice within a short time if there were lines. Off-season when it is very quiet, maybe.

At WDW... I hate to make y'all jealous, but we don't have to get a new SAP each time we go if we demonstrate the need and we are local. Our name is on the GAC, and we have a specific date range to use it. There is no backside of the GAC on which they could write dates and times because it has writing on it. However, I am *quite* sure that the CMs would limit access and ask us to wait if they saw us returning within a short time to ride again, when there are crowds. They used to have a yellow card that they would give with a return time, but I haven't seen it in a while.