Hey.

I have a friend who says she knows the way to get past the lines of Disneyland. She thinks by wearing a sling or walking with crutches she can get to the front of the lines. What is the rules at Disneyland about injured people getting a wheelchair or skipping to the front of the line?

I thought I heard the Disneyland beefed up on their rules? Anyone know?

I personally think its horrible if people fake an injury to skip to the head of the line.

Thanks

Well anyone can get a wheelchair if they pay for one. One thing that many teens who try this don't count on is that if/when security catches them "not really injured," they'll take the wheelchair away and the teen will lose his/her deposit on the wheelchair. Another, thing they don't count on: Some of the queues at Disneyland, and ALL of the queues at DCA are wheelchair accessible. People who truly need wheelchairs appreciate this. People who want to use the chairs to cut in lines, usually don't appreciate it.

For many rides, the wheelchair queue can make the wait longer, not shorter. For example, Space Mountain only allowed one person using a wheelchair on the ride at a time. That line got pretty long!

Ethically, this is one of the most distasteful (and immature) things I can think of a person doing. There are people out there who truly need wheelchairs and need the exceptions that Special Assistance Passes allow them. When anyone, teenaged or not, abuses the system and makes the SAP lines longer, the people that need them the most are the ones who suffer.

And finally, I don't think your friend realizes how much a wheelchair will slow her down when she's at the park. The wheelchairs Disneyland rents to guests are not lightweight. They can be very difficult to push. And furthermore, the general public is quite rude to people in wheelchairs. They cut them off frequently. When we go to Disneyland with our friends who use wheelchairs, we often "need" shorter lines because it takes us much longer to get from one attraction to the next in a wheelchair.

I have self-edited many a comment from this post.

Adrienne

If you use the search feature and the words Special Assistance Pass, 42 results will show up. I think you'll find that everyone who is a regular on MP are adamantly opposed to abusing the system by faking an injury or disablity. The problem is, that under the current system, there isn't much Disney can do unless they 'catch' the offenders obviously abusing the system (like swapping who is going to ride in the wheelchair next).

As for your friend, she might get a big surprise trying to use the SAP to 'cut' lines, those lines are often as long as the standby lines sometimes longer, since the point is to allow easier load/unload issues for the guests and each ride cycle is restricted to how many SAP guests can be on in case of evacuation issues.

I also find it funny when Disneyland does make a line wheelchair accessable, people don't use it. For example Indy in 1995 was hailed as an attraction where a person in a wheelchair could navigate almost the entire line(they can until the stairs). But when I worked Indy in 2000, there was a SAP line. And sometimes that line got to be about 45 minutes.

The reason the wait is so long on Indy is because people(wheelchair or not) have to load from the island. And only 2 wheelchairs can be on the island at a time. So that can turn into quite a wait.

Originally posted by thekirk
Hey.

I have a friend who says she knows the way to get past the lines of Disneyland. She thinks by wearing a sling or walking with crutches she can get to the front of the lines.



Your "friend" is a true humanatarian:rolleyes:

I agree, of course. No faking it.

However, some SAPers don't need a wheelchair. Case in point is our 13 year old friend who is Autistic. He can NOT wait in lines for long - he gets very agitated and.. well, lets just say he's extremely unpleasant to be around if that happens. Even though he's very high functioning and quite communicative for an autistic child, he really does need the SAP in order to enjoy the park.

The fortunate part is that if you are in his party, you get the benefit of the SAP as well. There is a limit, however of how many people can be in the party.. I don't know what that limit is. Unfortunately for me, we have not taken a Disneyland vacation with his family. We took a cruise together - but not a Disney one.

What's nice about this kid is that he's fast (loves to run) and really loves to ride. Normally he's very skittish about loud noises, but I understand he handle's the rides well! :)

Anyhow, my only point is that not all handicaps are readily visible.

Pat&Eli, just FYI, the group limit is six per pass. As for non visible disablities, that topic has been discussed many times. No one has a problem with any guest using an SAP that actually needs one and your sons friend is one of those. What many of us take exception to is the abuse of the program like thekirk was discussing in his post. Fake an injury, rent a wheelchair to 'line cut' those issues get a LOT of peoples "Irish" up around here.

Originally posted by Pat&Eil
However, some SAPers don't need a wheelchair.

Entirely agreed. In fact, my friends who use SAPs would rather assume that a person has an invisible need, than is faking it. They're much more generous that way than I am!

Another thing to remember, however, is that not every person who needs a wheelchair needs an SAP. For example, a person I know took her neice to DCA in a wheelchair, because she had a broken ankle. She was completely capable of sitting in her wheelchair, while waiting in a regular queue, so she did not need an SAP, only a wheelchair accessible route to the loading area. (Does that make sense?)

Tikiboy- years ago I saw a CM refuse to allow a guest in a wheelchair to use the SAP entrance (aka the exit) to Indiana Jones. He told her that the queue was wheelchair accessible and that if she wanted to use the SAP entrance, she had to have an SAP in addition to her wheelchair. I was really glad for the people who had SAP's and needed them, that he did that.

Adrienne

When I was down at DLR last month...and confined to using either my crutches or a wheelchair as a mod of transportation...I had something interesting happen to me.

Several times (on different days and different areas of the parks) I was approached by different DLR 'officials'...that is people in DLR costumes, as in security or managerial positions, no one in a attraction costume...walk up to my husband and I, as hubby was pushing me in the wheelchair, asking us if we knew about the SAP's...and how to use the SAP system. :)

While we do know how to use an SAP...I found it very nice that they would come up to me, and offer how to explain the system, and how to obtain an SAP if I needed one.

I always remembered Indy as being supposedly wheelchair-accessible, and the only difference is having to take the elevator to get to the loading platform and that you did need an SAP to enter through the exit. Interesting that now, the Disneyland website instructs guests in wheelchairs to enter through the exit. They should probably decide on a policy and stick to it and inform the CMs so everyone's on the same page.

Can some explain what and how a SAP is? I am thinking we may need one. My 17 yr old daughter has mild Cerebal Palsy that affects her right leg. While she walks with a slight limp, it is difficult on her to stand or walk long distances (like Indy) and for myself, I am on dialysis waiting a Kidney Transplant and tire easy as I am very anemic. While this handicap does not show on the outside, I am thinking we both may be candidates for SAP?

SAP stands for "Special Assistance Pass."

You get one at Guest Relations (at DL that's inside City Hall, at DCA, it's called Guest Relations.) You go to GR and ask for one. They'll ask you for the number of people in your party. The maximum for an SAP is usually 6.

Each attraction has different procedures for handling parties with SAP's. Most of the time, you'll be directed to a line that is shorter than the usual line. DL has a Guide that will explain what they are, but you might also stop by Tony Phoenix and Adrienne Vincent-Phoenix's Theme Park Access Guide (http://www.mouseplanet.com/tag/) here at MousePlanet, for more information on how to use the SAP on the various attractions and other tips for getting around DLR and other theme parks in the area.

Adrienne

Ladyin purple...


The SAP is for those folks who have difficulty standing/waiting in the normal lines and having a less than entertaining experience at DL because of it.

Sounds to me like you are both candidates and the bottom line is that's up to you to decide if you are or not.

We visited DL on 12/22 and saw a middle-aged woman casually walking along CARRYING her walker. Every time we would see some "handicapped" person rise-up out of their wheelchair to get into a ride (including the California Screaming rollercoaster) we would note that Disneyland seems to be a prime location for healing miracles to occur (if only momentarily). The number of "handicapped" people using the exit for entrance to rides is out of control. Seems to me that everyone moving to the front of the line for "medical" reasons should be required to bring some sort of official document and present it before being allowed automatically front of the line privileges.

Originally posted by SterlingGuy
Every time we would see some "handicapped" person rise-up out of their wheelchair to get into a ride (including the California Screaming rollercoaster) we would note that Disneyland seems to be a prime location for healing miracles to occur (if only momentarily).

There are a lot of reasons people would use a wheelchair and be able to "rise-up out of their wheelchair" and get into various rides including but not limited to CA Screamin. It's really in your best interest to not judge people based on what you can see, you don't know the full story.

That wasn't my mom you saw, but it might as well have been.

She got her knees replaced in late October and is transitioning from walker to cane, with occasional brief "free" walking. She can't do it for long but she HAS to do it. It might have been the same case for the woman walking with her walker in hand.

Before you get mad, walk a mile in someone else's knees. :D

Fab

Originally posted by SterlingGuy
Every time we would see some "handicapped" person rise-up out of their wheelchair to get into a ride (including the California Screaming rollercoaster) we would note that Disneyland seems to be a prime location for healing miracles to occur (if only momentarily). The number of "handicapped" people using the exit for entrance to rides is out of control. Seems to me that everyone moving to the front of the line for "medical" reasons should be required to bring some sort of official document and present it before being allowed automatically front of the line privileges.

As a disabled person myself who suffers from a back condition, I have on occasion had a need for a wheelchair. It all depends on how bad my condition is acting up for the day. My condition acts up with muscle spasms & sciatica (nerve pain) which act up when I am standing for too long but only occasionally affect how bad I can walk. (moving around actually helps while standing in place as in a line create horrible pain usually taking away the ability for me to stand & walk). Most days I just have back pain which doesn't always warrant me getting a wheelchair.

For the record, a number of medical conditions allow the ability to "get up" out of a wheelchair while needing it to get from place to place. Just because someone can get up out of a wheelchair does not mean that the person does not have a legitimate reason for using the wheelchair.

The new rules that have gone into effect that do not allow SAPs to be given out will mean you will see more people in wheelchairs than ever before. I would have no problem bringing and showing proof of my disability if it would allow me the ability to get the old SAP. I'm just waiting for the onslaught of posts about all the people using wheelchairs, and as noted...it's already started.

dsnyredhead, you would be better off with an ECV. The seat has some cushioning and spring, and it puts you into a better seating posture.

We were at MGM and Epcot last week with my 83-yr-old mother in a wheelchair one day and an ECV (finally!!!!) the next, and our autistic son, and as usual we got the typical "look" and a few comments from turkeys who thought we were cheating. All those who are so concerned about other people should be more concerned about their own judgemental attitide and manners. If you think somebody is bending the rules, tell a CM and they will send security to check it out.

If you have ever tried to push a walker on cobblestones or brick walks, you understand completely why somebody would choose to carry it... or have their middle-aged daughter carry it for them!

Originally posted by SterlingGuy
Every time we would see some "handicapped" person rise-up out of their wheelchair to get into a ride

I'm curious - are you under the impression that every person who is in a wheelchair is incapable of walking? I find your comment kind of odd.

The handicapped lobby has replied strongly to my post... unfortunately missing the point.
Having visited Disneyland now for the last 30 years, it has went from a place where there were relatively few wheelchairs to now where there are literally hundreds (if not thousands) on any given day. Why has this happened? Has there really been a 1,000% increase in the need for wheelchairs, both electric and manual? No. The answer is because Disneyland is granting special rights to those who use them as well as up to 5 of their family/friends. This is causing people to want to bring/rent them. If Disney went to no special privileges (as in the old days), you would see a dramatic drop in the number of wheelchairs. Those who have a legitimate NEED for a wheelchair should be the folks advancing no-fraud policies for wheelchairs, not making excuses for those who are abusing the system.
And frankly, if you or a family/friend "can't" wait it a line (for whatever reason), Disneyland may not be the right vacation choice.

Originally posted by SterlingGuy
The handicapped lobby has replied strongly to my post... unfortunately missing the point.
Having visited Disneyland now for the last 30 years, it has went from a place where there were relatively few wheelchairs to now where there are literally hundreds (if not thousands) on any given day. Why has this happened? Has there really been a 1,000% increase in the need for wheelchairs, both electric and manual? No. The answer is because Disneyland is granting special rights to those who use them as well as up to 5 of their family/friends. This is causing people to want to bring/rent them. If Disney went to no special privileges (as in the old days), you would see a dramatic drop in the number of wheelchairs. Those who have a legitimate NEED for a wheelchair should be the folks advancing no-fraud policies for wheelchairs, not making excuses for those who are abusing the system.
And frankly, if you or a family/friend "can't" wait it a line (for whatever reason), Disneyland may not be the right vacation choice.

While I don't agree with everything you said, it was interesting to read your thoughts. I don't know why there are more people in wheelchairs at Disneyland. But then, I'm noticing more people in wheelchairs now everywhere than before. I see people in wheelchairs at the grocery store, at the mall, and at my place of business.

And I haven't seen anyone make excuses for anyone abusing the system. The only thing I've seen are people pointing out to you that you might be making an incorrect assumption about someone simply based on how they look.

But you never answered my question.

I'm curious - are you under the impression that every person who is in a wheelchair is incapable of walking? I find your comment kind of odd.

Originally posted by SterlingGuy
The handicapped lobby has replied strongly to my post... unfortunately missing the point.
Having visited Disneyland now for the last 30 years, it has went from a place where there were relatively few wheelchairs to now where there are literally hundreds (if not thousands) on any given day. Why has this happened? Has there really been a 1,000% increase in the need for wheelchairs, both electric and manual? No. The answer is because Disneyland is granting special rights to those who use them as well as up to 5 of their family/friends. This is causing people to want to bring/rent them. If Disney went to no special privileges (as in the old days), you would see a dramatic drop in the number of wheelchairs. Those who have a legitimate NEED for a wheelchair should be the folks advancing no-fraud policies for wheelchairs, not making excuses for those who are abusing the system.
And frankly, if you or a family/friend "can't" wait it a line (for whatever reason), Disneyland may not be the right vacation choice.

Have you ever thought that maybe it's because the disabled are just a little more able to do things than they once were. Today disabled people drive, hold jobs, have families and lead as normal of a life as just about anyone else. They simply are not "as mobile" as those who aren't disabled.

The only reason why there might be a drop in the number of visitors with wheelchairs is inability for them to get around the parks. So you're saying that if someone is disabled, they should not go to DL? There are many things a disabled person can do at DL. There are several rides that a disabled person can do. There is no reason whatsoever, that a disabled person should not visit DL.

if you or a family/friend "can't" wait it a line (for whatever reason), Disneyland may not be the right vacation choice. Well, SG, that would be a consideration for my wife and I if DL did not promote itself as a disabled-friendly destination. While DL could make only the minimal accommodations required under ADA guidelines, they have chosen to go above and beyond in many ways. Accommodating disabled people is a smart choice economically. For a small capital expenditure (e.g. the cost of curb cuts at intersections throughout the park) DL can demonstrate to disabled people that they care about those who use wheelchairs. This group of people and their travelling parties will come and spend $2.30 on a coke that costs $.23 to make (including the labor to pour it). I think you see what I mean.

Another main reason that you see more people in wheelchairs is what dsnyredhead pointed out, that people in wheelchairs are more mobile than ever before. Although there are considerable costs to many of the advanced wheelchairs, these devices allow for people to venture outside of their homes for the first time in years.

The third reason that I want to point out is a socital one. Over the last few years there is a sort of "disability pride" growing in the U.S. People are feeling less and less embarassed about having a disability, and so people are bringing their wheelchairs while relaxing and enjoying their vacations.

Why did Walt Disney say he built Disneyland? So able-bodied people could go stand in long lines for thrill rides? No. He built Disneyland so that FAMILIES could have a day out together and enjoy each other's company, in a place where both children and adults would find an appealing and fun escape from their routine lives. It's about family, and getting a much needed break.

I think Walt would be thrilled to see all the 3- and 4-generation families that are enjoying his parks together. And, I am quite sure he would go even further to make sure that people had comfortable and welcoming places to wait.

I totally disagree with the philosophy of "If you can't keep up you will just have to miss out." Nope, doesn't work. We can have it all, and disability doesn't have to stop us.

Thank you, teri, well put. The SAP/SAC guidelines are well within Walt's ideas of family togetherness. I never thought how the SAP/SAC fit into the magic.