Kevin Yee has a piece about this. Abuse has surged since the proof of disability was discarded.

Personally, I think SAP guests should present some kind of something at City Hall. This would cut down on the skeptical, less-than-helpful CM attitude we experienced with my dad in 1998. He was clearly terminally ill, frail, limited to a wheelchair and yet we had a hard time getting the assistance we needed - and we weren't demanding at all.

I'd like to hear your take on SAP abuse, proof, and CM attitude.

Thanks.
Helen/3894

I find the article funny, especially where Kevin says no other Disney-related website has done a story on it. Well, maybe because the subject has been discussed ad nauseum and repeatedly at least on the two discussion boards that I participate in. It comes around at least once a year, and the same thing gets said over and over again. Except for the historical part (provided it's accurate), nothing Kevin said in the article is something I haven't already seen posted repeatedly on both boards.

And of course, then there's the part where the abuse is all the fault of APs... :rolleyes:

UMMMM ya know.... I'm just tooo lazy to list ALL the links off our of very OWN Main page about SAP's but here are a couple that jumped out when I hit the search button..

here's one (http://www.mouseplanet.com/tag/paris_tag.htm) and another (http://www.mouseplanet.com/tag/dcaaround.htm)

No offense towards any other site but I'd think that a little research would be in order before making such a 'broad' comment as NO other site has done an article on SAP....:rolleyes:

Originally posted by MammaSilva
No offense towards any other site but I'd think that a little research would be in order before making such a 'broad' comment as NO other site has done an article on SAP....:rolleyes:

I interpreted Kevin's comment to be with reference to the abuse of the program, not the details of the program itself.

That may be the case, what 'distracted' me from that POV was the reference that if the word got out it would be abused, as a reason for no "official" articles on the program.

I just finished the article. It seems his motives are to shed light onto the problem of SAP abuse, bringing public major issues in hopes that Disney will change.

This quote brought me to that conclusion.

We all seem to have silently and independently agreed that doing a story on the SAP program would publicize this pass and just result in more uncontrollable cheating. The Special Assistance Pass would become a Cheat Pass.

The system, however, is already broken. Breaking the news now about the SAP will not do much to create even more cheating, because the SAP lines have become so long that it is hardly desirable anymore to even get such a pass. If this article does in fact generate more (fraudulent) demand for SAP’s, that will only overload the system and encourage Disneyland to alter its policies sooner.

Also, I would think that a site like MiceAge would cater to Disney junkies, most who know about the SAP issues. If the article was on MousePlanet I would be more worried about an influx in cheaters, since MousePlanet helps with travel planning while MiceAge is a watchdog site.

I don't think that most people need to have this idea put in their heads by a website. I think that underestimates the awarenesses of most people, or overestimates their sense of values and morality.

Unfortunately, I know someone (who is related to me by marriage, not by blood,) who couldn't wait to "use" the system a few years ago. Her niece had a cast so immediately Auntie said, "Let's go to DCA because we can put you in a wheelchair and we won't need to stand in line!!" This person does not read any Disney websites. Not even MousePlanet...

Imagine her surprise when she did have to wait in wheelchair accessible lines. She was furious and complained bitterly. (I'm so glad I wasn't there with them!)

This infuriated me and my husband. Our friends in wheelchairs were happy that DCA's queues are accessible! This is a victory for them! And if that girl's only issue was a cast on her foot, nothing prevented her from waiting in a line with the other able bodied guests.

I don't know if they Guest Relations would give that group an SAP today but I was sure grateful they didn't back down then.

I would disagree with some of Kevin's comments about people who use wheelchairs, based on my experiences with some friends who use wheelchairs. Kevin said that it is more difficult on some rides because they're requiring people with wheelchairs to also have an SAP to not wait in wheelchair accessible lines.

Well, not all people in wheelchairs have problems waiting in accessible line, such as the girl I mentioned above. It would make sense to me that people should have SAP's if they have a wheelchair and they cannot for whatever reason wait in a line

Contrary to Kevin's assessment, and even Auntie's experience above, I believe that there are many people who use wheelchairs who are happy that many queues are now accessible and who would gladly get an SAP in addition to using their wheelchairs, if they needed to use the SAP privileges.

I think what most people with special needs would like is a consistant and clear policy one way or another, not having to guess what the policy will be from day to day or how it will be enforced from one CM to another.

Do those of you with more experience with this agree or disagree with me? (I mean this question respectfully, so I hope it sounds like it!)

Adrienne

Yes!-to Adrienne's question as to the wanting a consistent and clear policy. That would make life a heck of alot easier. For example, at our last visit to DL we went to City Hall to get an SAP. I was using a wheelchair for mobility reasons. I would have no trouble waiting in an accessible line; my son on the other hand has autism and looks "typical"-but on most days would have an extremely difficult time waiting in line-accessible or otherwise. When I tried to explain this to the CM, the response was, 'well, who will be getting on the most rides?" To this day, I haven't figured out what that has to do with anything.

We ended up hitting the "biggies" early in the day-with little to no wait; using FP's for Soaring and Screaming-whose lines are accessible. And found the CM's didn't even look at the SAP for the most part-except on Roger Rabbit-rude CM required a FP, and a SAP.

Originally posted by tjrj
When I tried to explain this to the CM, the response was, 'well, who will be getting on the most rides?" To this day, I haven't figured out what that has to do with anything.

I'm no SAP expert but I am 99% sure it was to know whos name to put on the SAP. The SAP can only be used by the person whos name is on it (and 5 guests). If the person whos name is on the SAP is not riding the party must wait in the stand-by line (or fastpass if they have fastpasses). So by asking who will be getting on the most rides, it was to know who to name on the SAP.

Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
I'm no SAP expert but I am 99% sure it was to know whos name to put on the SAP. The SAP can only be used by the person whos name is on it (and 5 guests). If the person whos name is on the SAP is not riding the party must wait in the stand-by line (or fastpass if they have fastpasses). So by asking who will be getting on the most rides, it was to know who to name on the SAP.

That sounds like a reasonable explanation, and while the CM might have been trying to be the most accommodating, it probably would have helped to explain the reason for the question, as I can understand why it wouldn't make any sense. And, technically, the person who actually needs the SAP should be the name that is put on the SAP, so the question really is a moot point.

I agree that with the SAP, as with some other issues, one of the problems is inconsistency with the way the policy is implemented. I don't know if they've figured out the policy with regard to the use of canes, but several years ago, I was with someone who has to periodically use a cane. On most of the rides, the CMs let you use the SAP line when you're using a cane even if you don't have an SAP, as City Hall tells you that if you have a cane, you don't need an SAP. When we tried to get on the monorail, the CM refused to let us on, telling us that she needed an SAP, even after we explained what City Hall had said. He was fairly rude about the whole thing as well. Later that day, we went back to City Hall and confirmed that she didn't need an SAP and that we should just tell the CM that. Well, we had tried and gotten nowhere, so that wasn't a workable solution.

My soon-to-be-ex stepmother has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome -- which means she tires quickly and can't stand for long periods of time -- but doesn't always require a wheelchair. However, when she came to Disneyland she forgot a doctor's note (this was in 1998 when you still needed one). She started to make a stink about it at City Hall -- I luckily was outside and halfway down Main Street. She got her SAP, but she about to ask me to go in on her behalf (I was a CM at the time). And -- after get there mid morning -- where does she use it first ? Yup, Honey I Shrunk the Audience! I wanted to scream.

From a CM perspective, I have quite a few people who use the system correctly, but there are a great deal who still don't get it: The family who wants 9 people on a pass, the woman who complains that she should be able to ride an attraction twice in a row because its a pain to get in and out of her wheelchair ( haapened to me as a CM on Alice), the man who gets angry at the Indiana Jones or Roger Rabbit CMs because the line is accessible.

HB is correct. The name on the pass must be riding the attraction. If the pass says Sara, and you only see three guys, that's a major red flag.
They must get something consistent, so no matter what happens the guest doesn't get mixed signals.

My wife uses an SAP because of her asthma. What I disagree with are these teen and preteen kids with an SAP and bragging on how easy it was to get it. Also teen and preteen kids with wheelchairs when they don't even need them. I see them using the SAP then RUNNING to the next attraction after the ride is finished. Or, speeding with the wheelchair to the next attraction. And, switching riders in the wheelchair.

At that point, I think a cast member should take away their SAP. The problem is, that no cast member will do that for fear of losing their job or they don't care at all.

Originally posted by Wizard69
Also teen and preteen kids with wheelchairs when they don't even need them. I see them using the SAP then RUNNING to the next attraction after the ride is finished. Or, speeding with the wheelchair to the next attraction. And, switching riders in the wheelchair.

At that point, I think a cast member should take away their SAP. The problem is, that no cast member will do that for fear of losing their job or they don't care at all.

When you see this happen, try to find out what wheelchair number they're using and report it to a security CM.

I have been with groups that have done this in the past and Security will watch for them and will take the wheelchair away from them. We've seen it happen. I believe that they also lose their deposit because they then don't have the wheelchair to return at the end of the day and get the deposit back.

Of course, if they do this at DCA it shouldn't get them very far because all the DCA lines are accessible :) Oops.

Adrienne

Originally posted by adriennek
When you see this happen, try to find out what wheelchair number they're using and report it to a security CM.

I have been with groups that have done this in the past and Security will watch for them and will take the wheelchair away from them. We've seen it happen. I believe that they also lose their deposit because they then don't have the wheelchair to return at the end of the day and get the deposit back.

Of course, if they do this at DCA it shouldn't get them very far because all the DCA lines are accessible :) Oops.

Adrienne

But what to do about those that use an SAP and then run from ride to ride?

Obviously you've never been to the park with an ADHD child!