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zebsawa
08-15-2003, 12:28 AM
The recent decision to do away with the "General Lead" position in order to save money, in actuality, proves that the executives to hold some sort of standard for the guests. A very simple solution that is used by many theme parks to save money is to cut staffing. Disneyland actually uses far more people on their rides than they have to both legally and in accordance to the union. If they really wanted to, they could have simply eliminated one of the unloaders at Pirates or any equivalent position at another ride on semi-busy days, thus saving labor costs throughout the year but hurting guest service by lengthening the waiting times. They could have also simply done away with height checkers and just leave a height stick or height meter at the front for guests. Maybe CM's can't imagine a world without height checkers but many theme parks do without it, including Six Flags and Legoland. Hell, they could have shelved the whole Fastpass idea and saved millions of dollars.

Disney gets bashed a lot, and mostly justifiably so, and even this instance of budget cutting deserves criticism, but I just wanted to point out Disney's method here was actually aimed at not hurting the guest experience, something so many claim Disney does not care about.

Justin

millionairegirl
08-15-2003, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by zebsawa
Hell, they could have shelved the whole Fastpass idea and saved millions of dollars.


Nice try. I agree Disney does care about the guests, but I don't think Fastpass is a good example. By having Fastpass there are more people eating and shopping. I don't believe this was 100% the reason it was implemented, but I think the probable increased revenue played a part.

experiment626
08-15-2003, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by millionairegirl
By having Fastpass there are more people eating and shopping.
I have heard this arguement a lot but I for one don't buy into it. I have never thought to myself, hey lets go shopping while we wait for our FP. I have eatten my meal while waiting for FP but then again I was going to eat anyway. I don't decide to have an ice cream or bucket of popcorn while waiting.

timl33
08-15-2003, 09:53 AM
Unfortunately, this is what is known as the fallacy of personalization. Just because YOU don't think this way doesn't mean that the designers of the FastPass didn't think that way.

Just think, if just 5% of fastpass users bought a little something extra because they had this extra time not waiting in line, then it would be WAY worth it to the company.


Originally posted by experiment626
I have heard this arguement a lot but I for one don't buy into it. I have never thought to myself, hey lets go shopping while we wait for our FP. I have eatten my meal while waiting for FP but then again I was going to eat anyway. I don't decide to have an ice cream or bucket of popcorn while waiting.

experiment626
08-15-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by timl33
Unfortunately, this is what is known as the fallacy of personalization. Just because YOU don't think this way doesn't mean that the designers of the FastPass didn't think that way.
And just because the designers thought it doesn't mean it is happening.

And I still don't believe that the majority of guests who use FP use this time to eat (more) or purchase (more).

Cadaverous Pallor
08-15-2003, 12:03 PM
Remember, it's very hard to know why people decide to buy things. It's not just "I have time so I will spend money." A lot of it is subconscious. Simply getting people to spend more time wandering around instead of standing in line is going to increase the amount of purchasing opportunities they have. They will see more products and food items than they would have before on any given day. Statistically, with the thousands of people involved, you are definitely going to have some increase in sales.

millionairegirl
08-15-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by experiment626

And I still don't believe that the majority of guests who use FP use this time to eat (more) or purchase (more).


I believe it . As an AP it doesn't matter, but the casual guest now has time to kill, and they are seeing the non fast pass attractions, but at the same time they have more time to buy churros, grab an ice cream, get that t-shirt, etc.. I remember being a teenager and not having time to do everything I wanted without sacrificing some e-ticket rides.

teach
08-15-2003, 02:49 PM
Regarding the discussion of fastpass system and its purpose; the bottom line for me is that it has enhanced my experience, allowing my family to experience more of the resort during the busy season. For this, I believe the system is a good thing, and I commend Disneyland for implementing the system. I also believe this was one of DLR goal with the system, to give the guests the best experience possible.

timl33
08-18-2003, 10:27 AM
Whether or not it's happening is completely irrelevant. The original post didn't buy into what the designers thought because of a personal feeling. This is simply put, a wrong line of thinking.

And I DO think it's happening. I don't believe that the majority of guests do this, but if ONLY 5% of the guests that used FP did, then the company would be making money. 5% is nowhere near a majority, but the point stands.


Originally posted by experiment626
And just because the designers thought it doesn't mean it is happening.

And I still don't believe that the majority of guests who use FP use this time to eat (more) or purchase (more).

sgtdilbert
08-18-2003, 11:12 AM
Regardless of personal opinions, it was reported here on Mouseplanet at the time that the Fastpass system was being tested, that shopping/eating revenue increased. We didn't get the exact numbers, but it did increase. Which resulted in the almost instanteous deployment of fastpass around the entire park.

Even if you don't believe that was the case, just look who was in charge of the park at the time: Paul Pressler. If it didn't create revenue, then it would not have been placed in the park.

s.

experiment626
08-18-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by timl33
Whether or not it's happening is completely irrelevant. The original post didn't buy into what the designers thought because of a personal feeling. This is simply put, a wrong line of thinking.

I did not say that this was not what they intended when they implimented the system. I said I do not buy that this is happening, in the majority of cases. And since this is my opinion I do have the right believe this.

timl33
08-18-2003, 01:04 PM
You do have the right to believe this, but like I pointed out earlier, it's a fallicical argument. I too believe that this isn't happening in a majority of cases. However, it doesn't need to be. The company still makes money from people shopping and eating more when using fastpass. Even if it's only 5%.



Originally posted by experiment626
I did not say that this was not what they intended when they implimented the system. I said I do not buy that this is happening, in the majority of cases. And since this is my opinion I do have the right believe this.

SacTown Chronic
08-18-2003, 01:14 PM
Me: Hey honey, let's run over to Big Thunder and pick up some fastpasses.

Wife: Good idea.

Me: Since we're here how about some BBQ ribs and the enchilada plate?

Wife: D'oh! Gee honey this fastpass system sure puts the weight on you.

Me: You gonna eat all your rice and beans?

experiment626
08-18-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by timl33
You do have the right to believe this, but like I pointed out earlier, it's a fallicical argument.
Please explain to me how believing that most people are not shopping and eating while waiting is a "fallicaical arguement.?" Especially when you are argreeing that they aren't?

I can see where if I said that because the aren't doing it this isn't the reason the they put in the system but that is not what I am saying.

timl33
08-18-2003, 01:43 PM
The logical fallacy at work here is the fallacy of personalization. Just because you believe something isn't true doesn't mean it isn't. You said that,
"I have heard this arguement a lot but I for one don't buy into it. I have never thought to myself, hey lets go shopping while we wait for our FP." which was in response to : Originally posted by millionairegirl
"By having Fastpass there are more people eating and shopping."

This is a logical fallacy based on a personal judgement. The thing that we agree on is that a majority of people don't eat/shop while using fastpass. The thing we disagree on is whether or not the company makes money.


Originally posted by experiment626
Please explain to me how believing that most people are not shopping and eating while waiting is a "fallicaical arguement.?" Especially when you are argreeing that they aren't?

I can see where if I said that because the aren't doing it this isn't the reason the they put in the system but that is not what I am saying.

sgtdilbert
08-18-2003, 01:53 PM
I have no idea why I'm spending actual time thinking of this, but this occured to me.

When Fastpass was originally deployed, I firmly believe it was based largely on addition shopping revenue. However, as guests have become more aware of Fastpass and how to use it more efficiently, perhaps that revenue increase has disappeared? If you factor in that there's really an insane amount of AP holders, and they have had a couple of years of self-training on the systems to figure out what works best for them. I'm not assuming that everyone has read the posts and articles on how to take advantage on Fastpass, but I think the typical AP is more savvy about the system today than when it was first deployed.

So, I'm firmly on the fence as to whether Fastpass generates revenue TODAY. :)

s.

Pat-n-Eil
08-18-2003, 03:52 PM
Well...

Disney officials may have thought that the FASTPASS was a way to get people on & off the rides so they could eat & shop more, but my first thought was "Yay! I get to ride more rides" which is exactly what has happened for us. Facts and figures may prove that FASTPASS has improved the shopping/dining bottom line, but those people doing that aren't being represented by us.

When we first arrive, we go to Splash Mountain for a FASTPASS, then we hit haunted mansion and maybe POTC depending on time.. Then to our FASTPASS ride on Splash.. Then we get another SplashMountain FASTPASS and head (normally) to Space Mountain, which generally doesn't require one these days. On our way back we hit GTMRR and then to Splash Mountain. This year, we're going to try Indy again.. it's been a few years - since we weren't all that impressed with the ride in relation to the line when we tried it before.

Food? Only when someone starts whining.. Once the first person mentions it, then everyone starts feeling hungry. We might dine in Disneyland or it might be time to head back to the hotel and eat, but I can tell you that for our family, FASTPASS has not meant increased shopping or dining.... except in the rare instance where the ride picture was extra good..

experiment626
08-18-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by timl33
The thing that we agree on is that a majority of people don't eat/shop while using fastpass. The thing we disagree on is whether or not the company makes money.
But I never said or even mentioned "the company" making money or not. I only said that people arent using the time for eating and shopping, IMO

timl33
08-19-2003, 08:11 AM
And the IMO is what makes it a fallacy. People ARE using the time for eating and shopping. Just because YOU aren't doesn't mean that other people aren't either. Now, if you had said that people aren't using the time for eating and shopping and then supplying marketing data, then it would be a more sound argument.


Originally posted by experiment626
But I never said or even mentioned "the company" making money or not. I only said that people arent using the time for eating and shopping, IMO

iceblue42
08-19-2003, 09:38 AM
Assuming that Disney implimented the FastPass on order to make more money (and the initial testing seemed to implicate this) and the side effect for the guest was the ability to ride more rides, it seems like a win/win situation. If Disney's surveys indicate that they are NOT making extra money due to FastPass then the current executive thinking would be to remove the system because it DOES cost money to run it (the machines, the paper for the tickets, the CM to collect those tickets, etc.) and I can't imagine the angry roar that would create from all the FastPass-savvy AP'ers.;)

experiment626
08-19-2003, 10:35 AM
I am not sure what why you are having such a problem with me experiecing MY OPINION. (an opinion you seem to share). I am not trying to say argue a point or give factual information, simply sharing an opinion. And as fare as I can tell an opinion is just that and can not be FALSE or TRUE, just an opinion.

timl33
08-19-2003, 11:57 AM
Look, I don't have a problem with you expressing your opinion. But just because it's an opinion doesn't mean that it's false or true. For instance. It's my opinion that the world is flat because when I look at the world, I don't see any curvature to it. Obviously I'm wrong. This is an extreme example, but it also applies to your line of reasoning. Your opinion is based on a faulty logical premise. Garbage in, garbage out as engineers like to put it. The opinion I share is that the MAJORITY of fastpass users don't eat or shop, but that is not what your opinion said. Your opinion refuted the statement that "there are more people eating and shopping." The original poster said nothing about a majority of anything. The only reason I brought up majority was because you did. So while I agree that the MAJORITY of people aren't eating or shopping more, "more people" are. Simple as that. The fact that it's your opinion is largely irrelevant to my points.


Originally posted by experiment626
I am not sure what why you are having such a problem with me experiecing MY OPINION. (an opinion you seem to share). I am not trying to say argue a point or give factual information, simply sharing an opinion. And as fare as I can tell an opinion is just that and can not be FALSE or TRUE, just an opinion.

Tigertail777
08-19-2003, 07:12 PM
I LOVE fastpass, I only get to go to DL every 5-10 years, but every time before fastpass that we went, there just wasnt time for shopping if we wanted to get all the rides in, or a majority of them. Now with fastpass I can ride almost all the rides, and do some good amount shopping! Plus this last time we went (last July) I finally for the first time got to eat in Blue Bayou! Fastpass ROCKS! (and so does single rider...especially when splash mtn breaks down more than once in the same trip, and you wait in line over an hour each time:p )

experiment626
08-19-2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by timl33
The fact that it's your opinion is largely irrelevant to my points.
And your points are irrelevant to my opinion. THE END!

sleepyjeff
08-19-2003, 09:45 PM
Never mind who's right or wrong: If I am judging a debate timl33 wins easily over ...my opinion. THE END.


;)