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mousecop
08-07-2003, 04:12 PM
Well it has finally happened. Eisner has decided the war on terror is over. As of August 3 2003, the security department at DLR no longer mans the public access gates of the Disneyland Hotel, Paradise Pier Hotel and the Grand Californian.

These cuts are 24/7 with the exception of the main approach to DLH (gate 27) and the kiosk into the Grand California during the graveyard shift. This is because parking is now handling the gates from the exit booths.

Even on the graveyard shift, we are no longer to trunk inspections or check ID's of vehicles or drivers entering the property. We are to wave and say "Have a great day!"

These are cuts due to budgetary requirements, so we are told. I guess our safety isnt worth a few people standing at a gate for a few hours. But dont despair, we still have the no fly zone designation.

These cuts came after the Marriot blew up in Indonesia. Still no reaction from management except to say to us we must be ever vigilant. What a joke.

Come to DLR at your own risk. Security is now in name only.

Andrew
08-07-2003, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by mousecop
Come to DLR at your own risk. Security is now in name only.

While I know you are mostly referring to the hotels, I have to say that it was pretty much "in name only" already. When we recently stayed at the Paradise Pier hotel, I was asked to open the trunk of my car every time I entered the lot. The security officer glanced in the trunk and waved me through--every time.

This would not have stopped any serious terrorist. It wouldn't have even slowed them down.

Similarly, when entering the park through the DtD Monorail station, I've twice been stopped and asked to remove the pocketknife I always wear on my belt. It's a folding Buck knife with a 2" blade--I'd stand more of a chance of nicking myself than hurting someone else with this thing. Yet both times, the security officers appeared almost comically serious in their insistence. I just walked to the main entrance, and entered the park without a second look.

Speaking of the main entrance, the bag check is ludicrous. Depending on which line you get in, your posessions may be removed and closely inspected, or your backpack may be glanced at and waved on by. Again, anyone with a malicious agenda would have no problem getting in.

So I guess Mr Eisner's take on this is, why bother? Why waste the money on "in name only" security?

mousecop
08-07-2003, 04:44 PM
Yes it is in name only, but it makes alot of people feel better. As far as the main gate goes, they took bag checks away from security along time ago. Main gate personnel, (ticket takers) do that job. Why? Go figure. Considering DLR has publically stated that they are a bonified terror target, go figure!

Most of us in security take our job seriously, but we are allowed to only do so much so we dont "wreck the magic" of our guests experience. How much magic in a suicide bomb?

cstephens
08-07-2003, 05:01 PM
I don't really see what the big deal is that they've stopped checking the cars. We were in Vegas this past March/April, and they've stopped checking cars as well. And while I cooperate with the bag searches, I've never thought they really served any purpose with regard to terrorist threats. Honestly, if the terrorists wanted to do something to Disneyland, I'm thinking they'd be able to find a way around minor security measures, and short of frisking and/or strip searching everyone before they got within 10 miles of Disney property, I don't think there's anything practical that Disney can do.

I didn't feel any safer when they instituted the bag checks/security car checks, and I'm not going to feel unsafer without them.

Maybe now they'll put back the shuttle bus that runs from the Mickey and Friends parking structure to the Paradise Pier Hotel since security issues were supposedly why they stopped running them.

Polar33
08-07-2003, 05:22 PM
Honestly, I view at least half of the changes that have been in place since 9/11 for guests, CMs and anyone else with business at the resort as grossly ineffective, or easily circumvented. Additionally, I have noticed many key areas in resort security that are very overlooked, and in my opinion the security of the resort is only as strong as it's weakest link.

Many of the changes put in effect were done cheaply, either to save money, or due to the suspected temporary nature of the situation. I think it would be in the best interest of the resort at this time to re-evaluate the situation. Hopefully, cutting back on things like cursory trunk searches to provide more funds for more permanent and effective security measures both on stage and behind.

Also, a lot of the measures they put in place are rather inconvenient for guests and CMs alike. Granted, I would prefer a safer Disneyland over a more convenient Disneyland, but if a little bit more thought was put into the decision-making, there could have been many measures put in place that were just as effective (if not more) security-wise, while still not becoming an inconvenience.

tabacco
08-07-2003, 10:45 PM
My biggest complaint was them moving the cast shuttle unload from harbor pointe to the green zone. Now guests get to see cast sitting around smoking and talking on their cell phones at any hour of the day :(

Tigertail777
08-08-2003, 12:04 AM
While I know the security was supposed to be for terrorists, I think it still served a purpose... it helped keep gangsters and like punks out. I know they have metal detectors at Magic Mountain, but somehow with gang graffiti in every corner and crevice, and tons of obvious gang vandalism it doesnt instill confidence. I know Disney already does/did have a low tolerance for gangs etc. the extra security seemed to help bolster it... to me anyways.

disneyfreak168
08-08-2003, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by Tigertail777
While I know the security was supposed to be for terrorists, I think it still served a purpose... it helped keep gangsters and like punks out. I know they have metal detectors at Magic Mountain, but somehow with gang graffiti in every corner and crevice, and tons of obvious gang vandalism it doesnt instill confidence. I know Disney already does/did have a low tolerance for gangs etc. the extra security seemed to help bolster it... to me anyways.

I agree with Tigertail. I don't like the thought of gansters and punks and those type of people going around DLR and doing who-knows-what to it. I don't want to feel unsafe in DL (well who does?), but I actually feel a little bit better if they thoroughly check bags and stuff. Anyway, that's my opinion. I don't want DLR (esp. DL [duh]) to be abused and I don't want them to allow people who are just gonna trash it.

mousecop
08-08-2003, 01:29 AM
Aside from the anti terror aspect of security, we have a lot of responsibility to keep the undesirable out. With DTD and Alcohol now available in DCA, a night does not go by where we are dealing with drunks and fights. Ever see some of the gangs and punkers coming out of House of Blues at the sametime families are making there way back to the DLH or Paradise Pier? It gets scary.

Now you can park at DTD for free all you have to do is go in teh gate off of Paridise Rd. and park in the structure. There is no one to stop you and no parking person at the booth after around 10pm. if at all.

Bright side I guess is if you forget your hang tag you dont have to park at Katella anymore. You can park in the structure. No one to stop you.

I did learn that in the event we go back to Condition Orange, the plan is to pull officers from the Hotel patrols to re-man the gates. The goal of the cuts is around 30% of our current staff of about 700. By the way, trunk checks have produced several results that I know of. Anyway, you shloud not be able to drive unchallenged right up into the hotels. Its asking for trouble.

mousecop
08-09-2003, 06:30 PM
In addition to the gate postions that were eliminated last week, we now are starting to cut into the regular security force. I do not have figures yet for the East side, but on just swingshift alone the westside (hotels, dtd, motors,) they have cut about 40% of the offiecr positions. So if you have ever had trouble finding security when you need them, (fights, noise complaints, drunks, stolen property, lockouts, key services, jump starts, parking lot safety escorts,medical aids, and just plain old crowd control ) it will be alot harder.

As soon as I get figures for Eastside dayshift, swing and grave I will post it, but I looks like the projected cuts of 30-40% will happen. Apparently this is all driven by budget which becomes effective at the begining ogf the new fiscal year October 1.

disney_leonard
08-09-2003, 08:23 PM
Disney is just following the lead of the rest of the country. They were going to yank all Sky Marshalls off long haul and international flights to save money on hotel rooms- until CNN broadcast it. Then it was all a mistake. I fear that we will only learn when something bad happens again.

Uncle Dick
08-09-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by mousecop
I do not have figures yet for the East side, but on just swingshift alone the westside (hotels, dtd, motors,) they have cut about 40% of the offiecr positions. So if you have ever had trouble finding security when you need them, (fights, noise complaints, drunks, stolen property, lockouts, key services, jump starts, parking lot safety escorts,medical aids, and just plain old crowd control ) it will be alot harder.
That's a real shame. It was my perception that the parking structure in particular could use more security late at night, especially once all the parking CMs are pulled out onto the tram route.

I don't recall being particularly impressed with security response times when a guest's car needed to be escorted up to a particular level (more often than not, they'd give up, park in Chip 'n' Dale, and hoof it up the stairs). Budgets are budgets, I suppose.

Polar33
08-09-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by mousecop
So if you have ever had trouble finding security when you need them

Funny you should say that. I realised a long time ago that security is never around when you need them. But whenever you don't need them you can always find plenty of them. Custodial is the same way.

I wonder if this means that security will stop finally stop stealing ODV's new radio shipments. The few that we have remaining are in quite poor shape, and it would be really nice if everybody who is supposed to have a radio for their shift actually had a radio to check out.

PhilMP
08-10-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Polar33
Funny you should say that. I realised a long time ago that security is never around when you need them. But whenever you don't need them you can always find plenty of them. Custodial is the same way.

I wonder if this means that security will stop finally stop stealing ODV's new radio shipments. The few that we have remaining are in quite poor shape, and it would be really nice if everybody who is supposed to have a radio for their shift actually had a radio to check out.

Actually, before I left, there was a time when Control actually answered my radio call without me having to repeat myself 20 times. I was so surprised I almost forgot what I was going to say. But yes, whenever you come across a lost child or a Guest that had their stroller stolen there's never a security CM walking past for another 10 to 20 minutes.

And I assume that Security will conveniently forget that they stole our new radios...leaving them with a large amount (don't know exact numbers) of brand new radios that another department paid for.

However, there are advantages and disadvantages to not having a radio when you're supposed to have one. I'm now just afraid that all the new hires on Stadium Vending and Hot Dog shifts will be cluttering up the channel with requests for breaks and calling the stockers when they sell one bottle of coke. Although it is funny listening to these new hires talk on the radio like it's a phone.

Phil

PhilMP
08-10-2003, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by tabacco
My biggest complaint was them moving the cast shuttle unload from harbor pointe to the green zone. Now guests get to see cast sitting around smoking and talking on their cell phones at any hour of the day :(

Oh, they don't have to see that from the green zone, that's much to far away from. All they have to do is walk to the 15-minute parking lot, they can see that up close and personal.

disneyfreak168
08-10-2003, 02:06 AM
uuugh...i feel sick to the stomach...

disneyfreak168
08-10-2003, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by mousecop
Aside from the anti terror aspect of security, we have a lot of responsibility to keep the undesirable out. With DTD and Alcohol now available in DCA, a night does not go by where we are dealing with drunks and fights. Ever see some of the gangs and punkers coming out of House of Blues at the sametime families are making there way back to the DLH or Paradise Pier? It gets scary.

Now you can park at DTD for free all you have to do is go in teh gate off of Paridise Rd. and park in the structure. There is no one to stop you and no parking person at the booth after around 10pm. if at all.


eh...it makes me cringe to read: Ever see some of the gangs and punkers coming out of House of Blues at the same time families are making there way back to the DLH or Paradise Pier? It gets scary. . It's kind of freaking me out...like what might happen? Those drunkies actually could attack families...:( :crying: and DTD is just wide open and it now feels so insecure with drunks roaming around and everything.

ok yeah I'm scared. :( :( :(

i don't feel good...someone needs to cheer me up :crying: :( :crying: :( :crying:

HBTiggerFan
08-10-2003, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by disneyfreak168
eh...it makes me cringe to read: Ever see some of the gangs and punkers coming out of House of Blues at the same time families are making there way back to the DLH or Paradise Pier? It gets scary. . It's kind of freaking me out...like what might happen? Those drunkies actually could attack families...:( :crying: and DTD is just wide open and it now feels so insecure with drunks roaming around and everything.

ok yeah I'm scared. :( :( :(

i don't feel good...someone needs to cheer me up :crying: :( :crying: :( :crying:

OK, First stop crying. DTD is still Disney property and those punks and gang bangers may not all be bad people and drunks don't all attack people. Personally I am more worried about the drunks driving after they leave (I saw 3 drunk drivers in a row while walking from the DLH to the M&F structure).

DTD is also loaded with Anaheim PD. I always see their presence whenever I am at DTD. They are on foot patrol and bikes. I don't think you have to worry about the drunks attacking families.

DisneyFan25863
08-10-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
DTD is also loaded with Anaheim PD. I always see their presence whenever I am at DTD. They are on foot patrol and bikes. I don't think you have to worry about the drunks attacking families.

Plus, they have a "mini station" right behind it :)

Cadaverous Pallor
08-10-2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by mousecop
Come to DLR at your own risk. Security is now in name only. Um, like it was ever a "secure" location? Looks like I'm going to have to break out the quotation marks for this one.

Anyone that feels better due to these "searches" is kidding themselves. Terrorists, "Punkers" and "Gang members" can always have knives, guns, what-have-you in their pockets. A trunk "search" (aka glance in the trunk, "hey look there's a suitcase I won't open go on through) or a bag "search" (aka glance in one pocket of the purse "oh you have a shirt stuffed in there well I won't dig to the bottom go on through") is completely and totally pointless, except to make the most gullible among us feel better. Why it makes people feel better, I don't know - if you knew anything about suicide bombers and true terrorists you would see right through how fake these "security measures" are.

Don't be fooled. The world is a dangerous place. They would have to strip search every single person in order to make me feel that they were making a dent. In other words, it's impossible, stop crying and get on with your lives.



Originally posted by disneyfreak168
Ever see some of the gangs and punkers coming out of House of Blues at the same time families are making there way back to the DLH or Paradise Pier? It gets scary. . It's kind of freaking me out...like what might happen? Those drunkies actually could attack families... and DTD is just wide open and it now feels so insecure with drunks roaming around and everything. Wow. I can't believe how scared people get. You know, not every drunk person wants to attack families. :rolleyes: This is such sociophobia that it makes me cringe. I would rather not segment society like this...shielding families from the "bad elements" of the world....I guess it's this feeling that leads people to gated communities and a fear of people that express themselves differently...I can't see myself viewing the world this way.

The world is not safe. The only way to make it safe is to take away freedom.

Get over it.

Not Afraid
08-10-2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by disneyfreak168
eh...it makes me cringe to read: Ever see some of the gangs and punkers coming out of House of Blues at the same time families are making there way back to the DLH or Paradise Pier? It gets scary. . It's kind of freaking me out...like what might happen? Those drunkies actually could attack families...:( :crying: and DTD is just wide open and it now feels so insecure with drunks roaming around and everything.

ok yeah I'm scared. :( :( :(

i don't feel good...someone needs to cheer me up :crying: :( :crying: :( :crying:


LOL. That's really funny. I had no idea that my presence in DTD following at a HOB concert was scary. I should stick with just scaring the kids at DL.:rolleyes:

And all of those drunks in DCA now that alcohol is available. You just can't go anywhere anymore without seeing drunks. Come to think of it, nowhere is save.

Maybe DLR should require a minimum of 1 year of sobriety to visit.

dshimel
08-10-2003, 01:33 PM
Mousecop nailed in in post 3, and no one seems to have noticed or come back to that point.

The security was never intended to keep terrorists or gangs out of Disneyland. The security was simply to make the general population feel safer. Same with the national guard in airports and taking nail files from old ladies when doing checks at airports. All the post 9/11 security wasn't about stopping terrorists. It was about getting bodies back on planes.

It doesn't matter if what you do is effective, as long as you do something.

Reminds me of post Columbine. They started kicking honor roll students out of school for having a steak knife in their car or a mail clipper in thier pocket. Metal detectors went up at schools, with unarmed security guards. Excuse me, the guys came co school with guns with the intent of killing people. It isn't like they would have been foiled by metal detectors manned by unarmed guards.

Meanwhile, post 9/11 the federal government gave itself all kinds of real powers to spy on people without probable cause, deny right to counsel during interagation, and hold people for extended periods without charges.

Uncle Dick
08-10-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by dshimel
It doesn't matter if what you do is effective, as long as you do something.
At the same time, I'd be surprised if Disneyland hasn't changed a great many things behind the scenes since 9/11. While the security checks at the gate "look good" to most visitors, the real work is being done behind closed doors without the knowledge of guests.


Meanwhile, post 9/11 the federal government gave itself all kinds of real powers to spy on people without probable cause, deny right to counsel during interagation, and hold people for extended periods without charges.
It's interesting that people will complain about how all the security at Disneyland is essentially pointless and then turn around and condemn actions that actually do have a significant chance of netting terrorists. I guess there's no pleasing some people.

Cadaverous Pallor
08-10-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by dshimel
It doesn't matter if what you do is effective, as long as you do something.Wow. Wow wow wow. I couldn't disagree more.

Paying people money to do things that are only for show and aren't effective at all.....so that people who entertain delusions about the world around us can feel better......what a dance. What a masquerade. What foolish waste. What a joke.

I choose not to participate in fake realities. That's why I think it's important that everyone understand the truth of the matter. If you want safety, stay home with the covers over you head.

HBTiggerFan
08-10-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Originally posted by mousecop
Come to DLR at your own risk. Security is now in name only.

Um, like it was ever a "secure" location? Looks like I'm going to have to break out the quotation marks for this one.

Anyone that feels better due to these "searches" is kidding themselves. Terrorists, "Punkers" and "Gang members" can always have knives, guns, what-have-you in their pockets. A trunk "search" (aka glance in the trunk, "hey look there's a suitcase I won't open go on through) or a bag "search" (aka glance in one pocket of the purse "oh you have a shirt stuffed in there well I won't dig to the bottom go on through") is completely and totally pointless, except to make the most gullible among us feel better. Why it makes people feel better, I don't know - if you knew anything about suicide bombers and true terrorists you would see right through how fake these "security measures" are.

Don't be fooled. The world is a dangerous place. They would have to strip search every single person in order to make me feel that they were making a dent. In other words, it's impossible, stop crying and get on with your lives.




Originally posted by disneyfreak168
Ever see some of the gangs and punkers coming out of House of Blues at the same time families are making there way back to the DLH or Paradise Pier? It gets scary. . It's kind of freaking me out...like what might happen? Those drunkies actually could attack families... and DTD is just wide open and it now feels so insecure with drunks roaming around and everything.


Wow. I can't believe how scared people get. You know, not every drunk person wants to attack families. This is such sociophobia that it makes me cringe. I would rather not segment society like this...shielding families from the "bad elements" of the world....I guess it's this feeling that leads people to gated communities and a fear of people that express themselves differently...I can't see myself viewing the world this way.

The world is not safe. The only way to make it safe is to take away freedom.

Get over it.

Every time you leave your house, or even if you don't there is a chance that there could be an attack. Ever watch the news and see the bombings in London, Isreal or Ireland? We should be greatful that this country hasn't gotten that bad yet. I am more afraid that sucidide bombers will start attacking here like they do in Europe then I am about being attacked by a "gang banger" or "punk" or drunk person in DTD. And I am more afraid of driving home down Disneyland Drive and getting hit by a drunk driver then I am of something happening at Disneyland.