Enforcing FastPass return times?

[danyoung]

Ignore my post - I was reading too quick, and they said there would be no math . . .

[currence]

My personal opinion, then need to revamp the FP system. Still use the same number of FP within the time frame, but give that time frame 2 hours. No grace periods. An hour can be tight. Especially if you end up across the park. But, 2 hours, there should be no excuses.

I agree with the first part of your post, disagree with the second part. It's a vacation, I shouldn't have to synchronize my watch to Disney time. BUT I would be more willing to have a short window (10 minutes?) if there was a longer redemption period.

[Tink Lover]

My personal opinion, then need to revamp the FP system. Still use the same number of FP within the time frame, but give that time frame 2 hours. No grace periods. An hour can be tight. Especially if you end up across the park. But, 2 hours, there should be no excuses.

I'd go one step further, and make it 3 hours. That is a pretty generous window, nobody should feel they have to worry about synchronizing watches or being late because of dining reservations, etc. It would reduce the number of conversations that CMs would have to have with folks who missed the window (because the window is bigger) AND it would give them a better leg to stand on for the ones they still need to have (look, we gave you a three-hour window). And it would be easy math.

But it would primarily solve the "hoarding" problem that apparently goes on, which seems to be the primary reason for making this change.

[curtsinore]

3 hours is back to hoarding for me, I leave tomorrowland with 2 fps because I was there at rope drop and picked up first at 8:40, 2nd 10:00 and 3rd 11:15. I use the 8: 40 at 1045 to pick up the 11:00, I leave at 11:00 to go to DCA, have 2 star tour fp in my pocket for 1:00. and 2:00, I ride Grizz single rider several times, soaking wet and now walk back to TML and ride Star tours, leave the park and I am done for the day at 2:30 on a 3 day visit. Same plan even works better in ROA as FPs are more frequent so could walk away with 3 fps. I return to my lodging, eat local and then visit DCA until fireworks or parade, ( hard to eat during those events) then I am done for the first two nights. On the third night I ride thunder mountain ( hard to digest on this ride, so not snack in hand) during the fireworks and last ride is casey junior, always ride it at night. And FL has few if any snack carts. So I walk out empty handed, where as in the past I sat with snacks while son uses the fastpasses in the late hours.

[Malcon10t]

We rarely get to use FPs, due to having to use the HA lines. If we have left the dog behind, then I grab some for the girls. It really isn't that hard. As far as "It's a vacation", very true. And since we don't get to use FPs, we usually plan to just wait for the various rides. Maybe since I almost always have to wait 45-90 mins for Space, 30-60 mins for POTC, 20-45-90 mins for IASW, 60-90 mins for Star Tours, I don't get what the problem is for being able to come back within a 2 hour time frame. I look at the big red sign that says I can make an appt between 1100am and 100pm and make a decision "Do I want to ride then?" If yes, I get a FP, if no, I walk on to the next ride I want to consider. At least you get the option. As MammaSilva can attest, we don't even get the option! And I don't find myself leaving the park early, or any of the other things I have read. We leave when we need to, come back when we want, spend what we want. Not being able to get a FP really doesn't affect my being at DL. There is so much more to DL than the 7 rides with FP.

[Tink Lover]

curtsinore, when I said "hoarding" I was referring to the practice of collecting FP's in the morning with the expectation of using them later in the evening, many many hours after the FP had expired.

You seem to be using the tickets pretty much in the same spirit as they were intended to be used - fairly close to the time of the actual window. You collect new FPs when you use the old ones - nothing wrong with that at all.

And your comment suggests that using FP's in that way can lead to a very satisfying day in the park. Which is what the final solution should do.

[currence]

There is so much more to DL than the 7 rides with FP.

Sooo true. My kids have never gone of 2 of the FP rides. We rarely do RR cartoon spin, I doubt either of them would even remember that ride. We sometimes do Big Thunder, but not every single trip. Same with Autopia, though the FP does not seem like a huge time saver except during crowded days. We have had occasions where we would have been better off in the standby line since they were not holding anyone back, all it did was make us wait the minimum return time and prevented us from getting a different fastpass. We usually hit up either Space or Star Tours for a FP, but usually not both in the same trip as by the time we come back to ride the return time is later than we choose to stay.

In CA adventure, the only FP we consistently obtain (and usually use) is Soarin'. The rest are for rides the kids don't want to go on or don't meet the height requirements.

[MammaSilva]

It's MY hope that in the revising of the FP system that they figure out how to honor them for those of us who actually read the GAC and how it's supposed to work. In theory Mal and I should be able to pick up a FP for space, wait til our window, drive up to the HCA line with FP in hand and be loaded in our window with a minimum of wait time however that just isn't how they do it. If you need to use the HCA loading area you WAIT, so we neither one bother with the FP because it doesn't benefit us. All this hoopla about how much this is going to impact peoples visits, they could go back to the old school of ok just get this line and when it's your turn you ride. Someone else mentioned there are only 7 attractions in Disneyland that offer Fastpass...you honestly think that access to those seven attractions will make or break your trip?

[iceman559]

I can agree with the 2-hour windows. That'd be perfectly acceptable to me. It's just that with the one hour windows, it can actually restrict what you do. If I get a FP for a Space that's valid in an hour, I'm not likely to want to leave Tomorrowland if I only have that one hour window. I'll just stay in Tomorrowland and ride Star Tours (assuming the waits are shorter again finally) and BLAB until it's my time. If I get a two hour window and my FP is valid in an hour, that basically gives me three hours to go elsewhere before my window ends. I'm a lot more likely to wander to other parts of the park and even out the crowd a bit, you know?

Regarding the "only 7 attractions with FP" statement. What's the reason those attractions have FP? They're popular. I've never seen Splash with a wait shorter than 45 minutes except early in the morning (which, when I go, is too cold to ride), Space is usually at least 30 as well, Indy is usually 30-45, etc. They don't put FP on a ride that averages a 5 minute wait. I agree there's more to the resort than those attractions with FP, BUT, I don't like waiting in those long lines. Without FP, I might not ride those rides. As it is, I usually only get one ride on Matterhorn since it's usually wrapped completely around to the back side when I'm there. So, I very well might end up only getting to ride attractions that aren't really my favorites.

[danyoung]

iceman, I'm guessing that if you asked 10 people about the return window you'd get 10 different answers as to what would make the perfect length of time. Since the current window is an hour long, I'm guessing Disney is just running with that. If it doesn't work, or if there are too many complaints, they may just give in and change it to a 2 hour window. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Malcon10t]

As it is, I usually only get one ride on Matterhorn since it's usually wrapped completely around to the back side when I'm there. So, I very well might end up only getting to ride attractions that aren't really my favorites.You do realize when the line is wrapped around the mountain, its usually only a 25-30 min wait.

Even having to use the HA entrance, we usually ride all the big rides once a day. And they don't put FPs on rides that only have a long, they have to have a high through put. They closed off FPs for POTC, HM, and IASW. Peter Pan frequently has a 90 mins line, but the through put isn't high enough for a FP system. Same with Dumbo.

And Splash rarely has a line during the winter. My kids have been known to ride 2-3 times in a row in December because there is no line. (They like riding right after we visit Club 33 so they are riding in their "all dressed up clothes....")

[letshavefun]

Does anyone think this change will effect how many people will pay extra for park hopping now? The current strategy (which will change with cars land opening) is to go to DL ride some rides and collect some FPs. Hop to DCA when the park starts to get crowded. Then return to DL later in the day. Enforcing times will prevent people from park hopping as much and maybe cause them to decide against paying more for park hoppers. even though hopping is really easy and fast it'll become less convenient since we are sticking to FP return times.
Personally we will still buy the hoppers we like to close down the parks in the summer and with DL closing at 12 and DCA closing at 8 we leave DCA and still have 4 hours in DL.
Is DCA going to stay open later now with Carsland?

[3Princesses1Prince]

Personally we will still buy the hoppers we like to close down the parks in the summer and with DL closing at 12 and DCA closing at 8 we leave DCA and still have 4 hours in DL.
Is DCA going to stay open later now with Carsland?

Word is yes. And a possibility of magic mornings. I've heard the peak DCA hours would be 8-11.

[iceman559]

iceman, I'm guessing that if you asked 10 people about the return window you'd get 10 different answers as to what would make the perfect length of time. Since the current window is an hour long, I'm guessing Disney is just running with that. If it doesn't work, or if there are too many complaints, they may just give in and change it to a 2 hour window. We'll just have to wait and see.

I don't deny that. I think we've already proven it here. All I'm offering is my opinions. Like I said before, Disney can do whatever they want and I won't complain (to them). But in our little friendly discussion here, I figured I'd go ahead and offer my opinions, just as you have yours ;)


ou do realize when the line is wrapped around the mountain, its usually only a 25-30 min wait.

That's not my experience. The one time I actually waited in the line because I was with friends, it took us 50 minutes from the back side. The other few times I've gotten in the line, I left after only moving a few feet in as many minutes. The last few times I have gone, they have only been running the Tomorrowland side. In fact, when I was there in January, they were working on the track on the Fantasyland side right inside that last cavern you come out of before the water, so they couldn't have opened it even if they wanted to. Maybe for you it's usually 25-30 minutes, but for me it's not.


Even having to use the HA entrance, we usually ride all the big rides once a day. And they don't put FPs on rides that only have a long, they have to have a high through put. They closed off FPs for POTC, HM, and IASW. Peter Pan frequently has a 90 mins line, but the through put isn't high enough for a FP system. Same with Dumbo.

Not to be mean, but good for you. I only get to be there for 2-3 days at most once per year. I enjoy riding the rides I like. To me, riding them only once a day isn't worth the price. Also, only getting to ride them twice a year sucks to me. Based on the content of your posts, it sounds like you go fairly often (at least more often than me), so I'm sure you're more willing to deal with it. I mean, the experience is going to be different for someone that goes every day compared to someone that only goes once every five years. If I got to go more often, I'm sure I'd be more willing to stand in lines and only get to go on 7 rides per day. But, with as sporadically as I get to go, getting to go on 21 rides for $210 + hotel + gas ($700+ for me, or $2,000+ if my family comes along) isn't worth it to me. It's just way too expensive.


And Splash rarely has a line during the winter. My kids have been known to ride 2-3 times in a row in December because there is no line. (They like riding right after we visit Club 33 so they are riding in their "all dressed up clothes....")

When I went in January, the standby wait time listed was 45 minutes. Definitely not nearly as long as the 2+ hour I've seen the handful of times I went during the summer, but still. If that's wrong, well then maybe Disney should look at making their listed wait times more accurate. I can only go by what I'm told. I'm not a fan of having to get into a line just to see if the sign outside is accurate.

[AnotherJenny]

Not to be mean, but good for you. I only get to be there for 2-3 days at most once per year. I enjoy riding the rides I like. To me, riding them only once a day isn't worth the price. Also, only getting to ride them twice a year sucks to me. Based on the content of your posts, it sounds like you go fairly often (at least more often than me), so I'm sure you're more willing to deal with it. I mean, the experience is going to be different for someone that goes every day compared to someone that only goes once every five years. If I got to go more often, I'm sure I'd be more willing to stand in lines and only get to go on 7 rides per day. But, with as sporadically as I get to go, getting to go on 21 rides for $210 + hotel + gas ($700+ for me, or $2,000+ if my family comes along) isn't worth it to me. It's just way too expensive.



This is not personal, I've said this many times before. If you don't want to wait in lines, don't go to Disneyland. A 45 minute wait is not unreasonable for Disneyland at all. If that is too long, then Disneyland is not for you. Maybe you can only enjoy Disneyland with the use of Fastpasses, and it appears that Disneyland may change the conditions of use. If you can't enjoy Disneyland under the new system, then Disneyland is no longer for you. But the bottom line is, Disney is the one enforcing their own system, not anyone on this board. No wall of text posted here is going to affect Disney in any way. All you can do it appeal to Disney by contacting them directly. They may or may not adjust their plans based on customer feedback, but sending your opinions to Disney is the only way you are ever possibly going to get what you want in this situation.

[cstephens]

If I got to go more often, I'm sure I'd be more willing to stand in lines and only get to go on 7 rides per day. But, with as sporadically as I get to go, getting to go on 21 rides for $210 + hotel + gas ($700+ for me, or $2,000+ if my family comes along) isn't worth it to me. It's just way too expensive.

I'm curious, what did you do when you visited Disneyland before Fastpass was put in place? Because people have been waiting in lines at Disneyland for decades. On the rare occasions I used to go as a kid, even though I've lived in Southern California for most of my life, we always waited in lines because that was just how it worked. As an adult, before I got an AP, I went maybe once or twice a year, and I did my best to plan on a day when it wouldn't be as crowded, but yeah, still, lines.

[iceman559]

This is not personal, I've said this many times before. If you don't want to wait in lines, don't go to Disneyland. A 45 minute wait is not unreasonable for Disneyland at all. If that is too long, then Disneyland is not for you. Maybe you can only enjoy Disneyland with the use of Fastpasses, and it appears that Disneyland may change the conditions of use. If you can't enjoy Disneyland under the new system, then Disneyland is no longer for you. But the bottom line is, Disney is the one enforcing their own system, not anyone on this board. No wall of text posted here is going to affect Disney in any way. All you can do it appeal to Disney by contacting them directly. They may or may not adjust their plans based on customer feedback, but sending your opinions to Disney is the only way you are ever possibly going to get what you want in this situation.

1) I never said a 45 minute wait isn't "unreasonable" - thought I think "standard" would be a more appropriate term - did I? I just said I don't like waiting in that long of a line. Which is 100% accurate. You might think 45 minute waits are just fine. Great. More power to you. I don't. That's also why I try to go during off-season so there's lighter crowds.


2) Please re-read the text you quoted. I specifically say that having to wait in lines "isn't worth it to me". In other words, if it truly does get to where I can't stand the lines, I won't be going anymore. So your whole little nasty-gram about that wasn't really necessary.

3) I have said numerous times that I know Disney is the one enforcing their rules, and I have said that I won't complain. Does that mean I can't have my opinion on a DISCUSSION board? I'm not saying what's right or wrong. I'm not telling Disney they better listen to me. Am I? I'm offering my views on a subject that was posted on a discussion board, just as those who have differing views are. I guess from now on everyone has to conform to what Disney says because they are the ones enforcing the rules and not those of us giving opinions on here for others to see and respond to?

Now, I'm sorry if this comes across as rude or mean or <insert adjective here>. It's just really annoying being told that "hey, your opinion here can't do crap about it, so don't even bother posting", which is basically what you're saying. This is now the third thread I've been involved in in just the past few months where I've basically been told to be quiet because my opinion is "wrong" or doesn't matter. Did I miss something? Isn't this a DISCUSSION board? If we truly shouldn't be posting our opinions, then why even enable posting? Why not just turn it into "articles" with a single post and no discussion what-so-ever. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a discussion board if all people are allowed to do is say "sounds cool" or "can't wait".



I'm curious, what did you do when you visited Disneyland before Fastpass was put in place? Because people have been waiting in lines at Disneyland for decades. On the rare occasions I used to go as a kid, even though I've lived in Southern California for most of my life, we always waited in lines because that was just how it worked. As an adult, before I got an AP, I went maybe once or twice a year, and I did my best to plan on a day when it wouldn't be as crowded, but yeah, still, lines.

I stood in the lines. Plain and simple. I don't deny that. BUT, on the same hand, tickets weren't $70/day back then, either. Back in 1995 (four years before FP), a ticket was $33. Even adjusted for inflation, that's only $46 in 2010. Tickets are 52% more expensive now than they were then, and they just go up every day. The problem I have is that prices are going up, yet I'd be getting on less rides. And it's not like Disney is losing money. Their profits are increasing as well. They're a company, they're out to make profits. Perfectly alright to me. BUT, when they start charging more for less, that's when I start getting angry and reconsidering using that service or product. Just like Netflix. Prices got hiked and content went down. But should I just go with it because I got NO video streaming or unlimited dvd-by-mail service before Netflix?

[Malcon10t]

It is hard to believe FP has only been in effect since 1999. I can remember waiting 5 hours for Space Mountain (grand opening). And I can remember waiting several hours (I was a kid) for POTC grand opening.

Yes, we make frequent trips. Probably 6 trips a year, generally 3 days, but at Christmas 12 days. Yes, we spend a lot also, but because someone only goes once a year, does that entitle them to more rides? Yes, you have to take into account what it costs you, and decide what if it is worth it to you. Maybe you need to ride Space Mountain or Star Tours 6 times a day to feel good about your trip. So, yes, you need to take this into account when you decide if this is where you want to spend your vacation fund at. But, Disney is going to (at least temp) manage the FP times. So, maybe you will want to wait a while. For others, they will be there on opening day of Carsland, willing to wait the hours needed to get in and possibly ride the racers.

[AnotherJenny]

2) Please re-read the text you quoted. I specifically say that having to wait in lines "isn't worth it to me". In other words, if it truly does get to where I can't stand the lines, I won't be going anymore. So your whole little nasty-gram about that wasn't really necessary.


I apologize if you thought that was directed completely at you. I find this to be a problem with the English language, that there is no generic subject pronoun.



Now, I'm sorry if this comes across as rude or mean or <insert adjective here>. It's just really annoying being told that "hey, your opinion here can't do crap about it, so don't even bother posting", which is basically what you're saying. This is now the third thread I've been involved in in just the past few months where I've basically been told to be quiet because my opinion is "wrong" or doesn't matter. Did I miss something? Isn't this a DISCUSSION board? If we truly shouldn't be posting our opinions, then why even enable posting? Why not just turn it into "articles" with a single post and no discussion what-so-ever. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a discussion board if all people are allowed to do is say "sounds cool" or "can't wait".


It has become clear that we cannot agree to disagree. To me it seems that unless I completely agree with you or say you are right you will continue to respond with extremely long posts in the name of discussion, and I choose to no longer participate.

[iceman559]

Yes, we make frequent trips. Probably 6 trips a year, generally 3 days, but at Christmas 12 days. Yes, we spend a lot also, but because someone only goes once a year, does that entitle them to more rides? Yes, you have to take into account what it costs you, and decide what if it is worth it to you. Maybe you need to ride Space Mountain or Star Tours 6 times a day to feel good about your trip. So, yes, you need to take this into account when you decide if this is where you want to spend your vacation fund at. But, Disney is going to (at least temp) manage the FP times. So, maybe you will want to wait a while. For others, they will be there on opening day of Carsland, willing to wait the hours needed to get in and possibly ride the racers.

I didn't say it entitles them to more rides, just that it makes them less willing to spend time waiting. It's like Coyotes games for me. I got to a decent amount (12+ year) and so I don't mind so much if we lose or what not. But, for my friends that never go (at most one game a season), they get pretty angry when we lose.

I don't mean to sound like I'm saying people that go often should get screwed so the people that don't go often can enjoy their trips. What I'm saying is that I think the current system works. Everyone is given the same rules for FP, standby lines, etc. There's no special treatment for frequent visitors or new visitors or anyone in between. If someone that goes more often is willing to wait in line for 90 minutes for whatever reason (including because they know they can always ride it one of the other 30 days they go out of the year), more power to them. But for someone like me that gets maybe three days a year at the park, I want to ride more to feel like I'm getting value out of the park. That's all I'm saying. And as I said, I'll give it a try (I'm going in September - which will be only my second trip in five years now), and if I don't like it, I might think twice the next time I go.


I apologize if you thought that was directed completely at you. I find this to be a problem with the English language, that there is no generic subject pronoun.

And I apologize if it wasn't. Based on some of your wording (not just the use of "you"), I took it that it was directed specifically at me and my comments.


It has become clear that we cannot agree to disagree. To me it seems that unless I completely agree with you or say you are right you will continue to respond with extremely long posts in the name of discussion, and I choose to no longer participate.

I agree to disagree. When I make my posts, my intention is not to act like you guys are wrong, but just to defend my position and make known my viewpoints. The reason I made the statement that you quoted was simply because this isn't the first time someone has put wording that is essentially telling me to be quiet about a discussion. As I said above, all I'm doing it providing my opinion, including counter points to others, just as they are doing. My posts tend to be longer, sure. But I'm usually responding to multiple people or need more "evidence" to support my opinion. I'm not the type to just say "here's my opinion". I like to show why I arrive at my opinion so that people can see the logic BEHIND my opinion. I apologize if that makes my posts longer than you guys would like to read. In the future, I will do my best to limit the length.

[houseofmouse]

I have to agree with Iceman on his point of spending money on a one-day hopper and if he only got to ride 1-2 rides per park he would be a bit upset. I would be too. However if this becomes the new norm, something is seriously wrong with the way rides are being loaded. Don't forget this applies to DCA too where I love Fast Pass for certain rides and would not miss it for others. If I am going to spend 101.00 on a park hopper I hope that more than a few rides would apply. :)

[Malcon10t]

I have to agree with Iceman on his point of spending money on a one-day hopper and if he only got to ride 1-2 rides per park he would be a bit upset. I would be too. However if this becomes the new norm, something is seriously wrong with the way rides are being loaded. Don't forget this applies to DCA too where I love Fast Pass for certain rides and would not miss it for others. If I am going to spend 101.00 on a park hopper I hope that more than a few rides would apply. :)OK, we cannot use FP due to having to use the HA queues. When we are on a RIDE RIDE RIDE visit (usually when we take nieces and nephews), without using FP, we can usually get in 15 rides a day easily. And I honestly think (and people can disagree) that using the FP system as it was intended will free up more FPs for those who want to use them, and create better standby lines at night. Even if EVERY LINE is 30 mins, in a 10 hour day, you should be able to get 20 rides in. So, being in the park and only riding 1-2 rides, well maybe on NYE, when you simply want to get away from a crowd, but even then, we get in 6-10 rides without TRYING.

[cstephens]

It is hard to believe FP has only been in effect since 1999. I can remember waiting 5 hours for Space Mountain (grand opening). And I can remember waiting several hours (I was a kid) for POTC grand opening.

I think the last ride I waited multiple hours to ride was when the subs reopened themed to Nemo. I drove down after work and met friends there, and I think we waited 4 or 5 hours. It didn't actually seem that bad because we had a good time hanging out and chatting, and all through the line, people were taking breaks to go to the bathroom and get food and such. It was all pretty relaxed.



I didn't say it entitles them to more rides, just that it makes them less willing to spend time waiting.

Hmmm, interesting, because I often find the opposite to be more true. Frequent visitors to the park tend to be less willing to wait for a longer period of time precisely because they know they can easily come back another time. We refer to this as the AP snub. :) Day guests who get to visit less often tend to be more inclined to wait in a longer line because otherwise, they won't get to go on the ride at all. I know that when I'm visiting DL with people who don't go often, I am much more willing to wait in lines than if I'm going with a group of frequent visitors. I also find that whereas I'm not as likely to wait 30 minutes for a ride at Disneyland, I'm perfectly willing to do that at Walt Disney World because I'm not able to go there often.



I have to agree with Iceman on his point of spending money on a one-day hopper and if he only got to ride 1-2 rides per park he would be a bit upset.

I can think of very few days when it would be so crowded that someone could only ride that few rides on a given day - maybe a really bad Fourth of July or New Year's Eve or sometime between Christmas and New Year's. I've heard of people who have gone into City Hall on days like that to complain about how crowded it is and how there are long waits for rides and food alike, and I've often wondered what they were expecting on days like that.

But I think that's always been part of the trade-off. One can choose to go on days when it's likely to be less crowded, but those are also the days when various rides might be down for refurb. If one wants to go on a day when all the rides are up and there are fireworks and Fantasmic is running, those are likely to be days when it's going to be more crowded too. It's really a matter of choosing what's more important to someone.

[carolinakid]

Another Jenny, I think the generic subject pronoun in English is "one", although it's probably not considered a pronoun but rather a generic subject noun. I use it when I want to avoid being perceived as accusatory by using "you" in certain instances. For example, If one doesn't want to wait in lines, one shouldn't go to Disneyland....

[dban3]

I have to agree with Iceman on his point of spending money on a one-day hopper and if he only got to ride 1-2 rides per park he would be a bit upset. I would be too. However if this becomes the new norm, something is seriously wrong with the way rides are being loaded. Don't forget this applies to DCA too where I love Fast Pass for certain rides and would not miss it for others. If I am going to spend 101.00 on a park hopper I hope that more than a few rides would apply. :)

I heard somewhere (Al Lutz probably so take it for what its worth) that Disney's goal is to have a guest be able to comfortably enjoy 10 rides/attractions in a park day. Its why the huge per hour load capacities of Pirates, Hanunted Mansion, and now Little Mermaid are so important. Now you can do more than 10 of course with some planning, hustle, and efficient use of the fast pass, but a comfortable 10 seems about right from a Disney perspective. Works for me.