I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the Parenting forum, so I'll put it here and it can be moved.

A minor vent here.

On PotC on Sunday a family got on the boat with us and they had a crying kid! The mom was trying to quiet the kid but he wouldn't stop crying. The CM was telling the mom he wouldn't send the boat with the kid crying but the mom wouldn't get off the boat and was insistent on trying to quiet her kid (while holding up the boat). So I turned around and said "will you please take the kid off the boat? It is obvious he doesn't want to ride" and she kept trying to quiet him and the CM kept telling her to take the kid off the boat so he could send it. Finally the entire family got off the boat and then the kid stopped crying. I felt bad for the other kids since they had to get off the boat too because one of the parents decided if the crying kid couldn't ride no one could.

Moral here: If your little darling is screaming or scared to go on a ride, don't force them! Hopefully a CM will refuse to send you off with your scared child so your little darling doesn'tt ruin it for the rest of us who don't want to hear the screaming and crying from a scared child.

I understand what you are saying and I agree. However, I do sympathize with the parents. I'm the parent of a kid who is very afraid of Pirates, and I used to be afraid myself. There is a hope that you can help your kids face their fears and overcome them. There's more to it than just trying to force them to ride a ride. You're hoping something can be learned from this and that the child can grow.

However, this does require a certain amount of maturity from the child and a willingness to act on your suggestions. When they are too immature or unwilling then it is pointless to push the issue and can only do more harm than good. They'll resent you for it and will probably never overcome their fear.

The first time I rode pirates with my daughter she didn't know what to expect and was rather shocked at how "scary" it was. The next time we went she remembered being scared of it, but didn't really know why. The darkness was what really got to her, but she didn't know that. She thought she was scared of the pirates. She didn't scream out loud though, because that's not what she does when she's scared. She would just cling to us and hide her head. I wasn't sure if this was her way of coping and she was really having fun with it, or if it was really scaring her bad.

Once we got down into the caves she kind of snapped out of it, but I could tell that she wasn't handling it well. Here she realized that the pirates were actually kind of fun, but she was still scared of the darkness we had passed through. The next few times we went we were able to bribe her on to the boat and help her be more brave by providing "pirate treasure." This idea came from a CM that saw her in line, scared to ride. He provided her with a gold beaded necklace and told her that the pirate treasure would help her to be brave. He was right. She held on to that and didn't shake, cling, or hide at all through the ride. Since then we've been using the jewels and coins you can buy outside of the exit at Pieces of Eight.

However, the last time we went we weren't prepared with a bribe and she began to actually cry out-loud this time. Something she hadn't done before. So, with other adults in the group to sit with the other kids I just walked across the boat with her and out the exit. She felt much better and we got to spend some daddy/daughter time riding other rides that she would enjoy. We also checked out the pirate exhibit upstairs so she could see the pirates (which she does like) without having to ride the ride.

We've been through this with my oldest son and now he likes the ride. It takes some coaxing, but definitely no pushing.

I agree, but to an extent -

I think it depends on the age of the child and the personality of the child. My eldest daughter is afraid of the unknown, but once she has experienced something it rarely scares her again (IJ being the exception). She didn't want to ride anything the first time we took her because she didn't know what it would be like. Well, how is she to know unless she tries it? The first time we took her on the Matterhorn she was crying - not hysterically, mind you, but enough that others noticed. Talk about dirty looks! Well, by the time we finished she was laughing and having a great time. The line was short so we went again, and the CM remembered her (it was only 10 minutes ago) and commented on her change of heart.

My son is completely different. He'll try anything, and if he doesn't like it, he's crying by the end. The challange with him is not taking him on things we know will scare him, and he gets pretty mad about that and cries!

In 1994 we went to WDW and i was scard to death to go on Pirates or the Mansion. I was crying my eyes out because I did not want to go on pirates and this CM noticed. He took me to the Gift Shop and Picked out one of those fake guns, he didnt pick out one of the small ones, he picked the huge rifle! He told me to go on the ride and if the piratres scare me, to shoot them with the gun! SO I went on the ride, and now its one of my favorite rides ever! After my first ride we went to return the rifle to him, but to my surprise he said I could keep it! That is my ultimate favorite Disney Experience. It's also the reason why I disagree with people who say Disney CM's are jerks and all that...

My son is like scaeagles daughter. He has problems with transitions, and is innately fearful of new things. He was even afraid of the Pooh ride at WDW after looking forward to it for months. He even worked himself into an asthma attack in the Fastpass queue. We had to jump the rope into the exit queue to get him out of there. You should have seen the dirty looks we got as we pushed our way through the store to get him out to his asthma medicine to give him a treatment. We carried him back in, whimpering, and he was scared through about half of the ride. As we got into the heffalumps and woozles room, he started looking around and eased up. When we got off the ride, he said "how come the heffalumps and woozles were just pictures?" (Meaning two-dimensional cutouts.) He was just fine after that with the ride. (We did have to repeat at one or two other rides.)

It all comes down to this: Know your child. If it's just automatic initial reluctance that you know that they will get over once they're on the ride, then go for it. If they're truly scared out of their gourd, don't do it.

Good for the CM for sticking to his guns.

I think it's totally unfair to subject the entire boatload of people plus anyone else within hearing range, to a screaming kid for the ride.

And too bad for the other kids that the rest of the family just didn't stay on the ride.

That said, I wish some of these dark rides would offer rider switch for parties like this. It would be a great option for people on those once of a lifetime trips.

Adrienne

I think I have a bigger issue with parents that force their kids to take a picture with characters when they are terrified.

The kid will be just sobbing and I have actually seem parents drag them by an arm, scraping up knees on concrete to make sure they stood still by Rollie Pollie Ollie.

no better way to ruin the magic for a little one then then.

r.

I would like to start my reply by saying that I think I am a pretty good mom and all the kids hang out at my house after school (those are my credientials!). And, having witnessed many crying children on many rides at Disneyland I always vowed that if I ever had children I would never force them on any ride.

But guess what. I took a sobbing child on a ride in May. I knew that my youngest daughter would love Alice in Wonderland. She had seen the movie several times and had actually been on the ride several times during previous visits - ages 0-2. But, now that she is three she has developed phobias that we had not encountered with our other daughter.

I tried soothing talk, rationalizations, bribes - nothing worked and she was sobbing pretty hysterically. But, you know what. We stayed in line. I had only ridden on 4 rides the day before because of this newly developed phobia and I love Alice and I really wanted her to go on it and get over this fear of the dark rides!

The CM was sympathetic, put us in my daughter's favorite color caterpillar, and off we went. You know the rest. She loved it - ok except for the Queen of Hearts! Of course if the CM said get off the caterpillar I would have jumped off (I respect people in uniform!). But the CM had seen this scene a few times before :)

A few days later a woman approached me while I was with my older daughter and asked if my other daughter was enjoying Disneyland. When I couldn't place her face she told me she had been standing behind me in line that day and hoped my little daughter pulled through ok.

A long ramble to say that sometimes - just sometimes - we parents are trying to jump a huge hurdle with our child - yes in public! I don't want to terrorize my children and lI do let them decide when they are ready for most things (character interaction, rollercoasters...). But Alice. Everyone loves Alice.

I guess this pushed a button. Thanks for reading.:)

Thanks for the feedback everyone :)

First, this If your little darling is screaming or scared to go on a ride, don't force them! should read screaming or crying because they are scared....

Second: I am not a mom nor do I play one on TV. I have gone to DL with terrified kids before and I do understand the difference between getting over a fear and down right petrified.

dgdisney, I admit I would have been thourghly annoyed with you if I was near you in line and your daughter was in hysterics. I also think there is a difference between an Alice catipillar and a Pirates boat. Alice you are sort of alone, Pirates you are with a group of people.

Rustin, I agree.

AdrienneK, I thought all rides had a rider switch program :confused:

Mark, I think I read your trip report (you mentioned your sons asthma attack at the Pooh ride) and all I have to say is shame on all those people who were giving you dirty looks trying to get your son his medicine.

Bill, I have seen you with your kidlets. You are an awesome dad :) And my utter thanks (even though I wasn't there) for not forcing your daughter to ride Pirates sans bribe ;)

Im taking my now 3 year old in less than a week. She has been to the park 3 times from the time she was a year old. We have the potc, hm, and some of the Fantasyland dark rides music here at home and asks to hear them alot. She has ridden them all.

Lately I have noticed a different look on her face as she listens, and I think it is a developing fear look. I ask her if 'she is ready to go ride pirates, or if shes ready to go ride ghosts', and she gives a rather reluctant sounding yes. A typical excited response to things she likes, its not. So, Im a bit worried she has built a fear of some rides she was fine with previously.

Having been scared myself of those rides as a youngster Im totaly keyed in to her apprehension. I realize her perceptions of EVERYthing have grown in the last year. Many times I run across something we havent done for awhile that suddenly seems strange to her. Part of growing at that age I believe.

I do agree with Bill. Im hoping that even though I have seen these signs that she will be scared, that with a bit of reassurance she will 'grow' a little and realize she likes the ride.

HOWEVER. I will keep a close eye on her in the queues and if she becomes more than agitated, leave the line.

Its a parental tightrope. And as a first time parent, I appreciate the views of the folks who have already done it :)

On the other side...

I wasnt there HB, but had you leaned over and in the words of your original post said, "Its obvious they dont want to ride" to me, I would have politely asked you to mind your own business. Ive read MANY of your posts, and feel you are often the voice of reason on this board, so Im NOT downing you! I wouldnt want to hear the painful cries of a distraught child on a pleasant ride either. BUT, as Bill put it, there is always a glimmer of hope in every parent that what they are doing has merit to their child.

Once again, a very helpful post. I know this type of situation is in my future, and all of your comments have given me insight I didnt have.

Thank You!

~DW

*8 days to Disneyland!!*

Originally posted by DwoernAdale

HOWEVER. I will keep a close eye on her in the queues and if she becomes more than agitated, leave the line.


DwoernAdale - Wow - nice to hear about another 3year old undergoing the big change! I realized that I would have written a reply similar to yours prior to my vacation - that was totally my strategy. But, having only 4 rides (all outdoor) after day one I took a different strategy for day 2. It worked - it was just a bit painful.

After the "Alice Affair" we did continue to leave queues - Haunted Mansion and Roger Rabbit in particular- but those were rides that I agreed were probably too much for her this year.

My oldest daughter never had these issues - but then she has her share of other phobias (the parking garage elevators are a big one - the Matterhorn is not:)

Good luck with your trip - your daughter may surprise you and ride on everything! Disneyland is certainly a different place everytime we go - because now we look at it through the eyes of our children and those views seem to change on a dime these days!;)

Mod note: I fixed the vB code. That's all... Adrienne K

:) I with ya on the 3 yr olds!!! Everyone always says that 2's are the terrible ones, well, they must have never had a 3 yr old! LOL

It is strange, I have a 3 yr old and a 4 1/2 yr old...and my oldest did not go through this either...but like dgdisney's oldest, she had other things (she is very shy, which makes it hard for her to do a lot of things).

My 3 yr old is very outgoing, will yell at the top of her lungs (whereas my oldest would just sit and sulk), and do whatever she can to fight me!

And I do have to say that we have had to remove her from lines, however, it was not because she was scared. In fact, she is my daredevil, ad will do just about anything!

A couple more funny stories about my daughter's phobias (for other parent's who might be dealing with the same thing):

By the way, she's 4 years old.

She used to hate the Haunted Mansion. We couldn't even bribe her to go on that one, so either we wouldn't ride it at all or we'd split up while some of the group rode. But then they put the Nightmare overlay in and before our trip in October I rented the Nightmare Before Christmas movie. She loved the movie and was singing the songs for months afterwords (she still sings them once in a while). So I was pretty sure she'd like the "new" Mansion.

She did indeed like it and wasn't scared at all. Even with the screaming in the stretching room. It was a remarkable change for her. And now, even with Jack gone, it's one of her favorite rides. On our last visit there she rode it 3 times in one day at her request. She was so proud of herself for being brave. I was proud of her too. :D

While in line for Pooh though, she saw that it was dark inside and became scared. Even though she's familiar with Pooh and likes him, she became a quivering leaf at the sight. With my reassurance (but no bribe this time) and with the reassurance of the CMs, she reluctantly made her way on to the ride. As the ride began she was hiding her face, but as she realized that it was just Pooh and nothing scary she quickly warmed up to it. After we exited she wanted to ride again. Luckily it was still early morning and there was no line, so we hopped back in line, this time she jumped into the beehive and was ready to go. All day she talked about how Pooh was her "new favorite ride." Sometimes the fears our children face are more from active imaginations than anything really terrifying.

I did buy her a treat at Pooh corner after ride #2 though, but she didn't know I was going to do that going into the ride. I didn't even know I was going to do that. ;)

Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
AdrienneK, I thought all rides had a rider switch program :confused:

Technically, they should.

In practice only the rides with height restrictions have a formal rider switch set up: Cast members stand at the front of the line and have paper passes available to give families who want to use it. They have a formal system in place (re-enter at the exit or re-enter through the fast pass line.) And they understand how it works and explain it to families who come up to the line.

If I walked up to Haunted Mansion and said, "Hi, my 4-year-old is too scared to ride this, may I have a fast pass so I can ride after the rest of my family rides?" They would most likely say, "Sorry, we don't have rider switch on this ride." The first year they had the Holiday Overlay, I was told by some TDA suits that they would add rider switch for the overlay, but they didn't. When I asked about it at the HM, they told me it wasn't available.

Here's why I say, "Technically, they should"- a cast member has the ability to arrange a rider switch for any ride. But they don't have the paper passes for other rides and no formal set up so that the other cast members on the ride would know, "These people are coming through because they're rider switch riders." If a CM arranged a rider switch for one family who actually asked, it could become a confusing mess down the queue, so it's easier to say, "Sorry, no, we don't do that here."

On the one hand, it would cost Disney money to provide passes and staffing for every dark ride. On the other hand, it would be nice if they could add it to some of these dark attractions, especially since POTC and HM have fast pass already, so some of the set-up is already in place on those rides.

I admit, it's been a long time since I've been on either ride seeking a rider switch so if this has changed, I'd be happy to be wrong.

Adrienne

Originally posted by DwoernAdale
I wasnt there HB, but had you leaned over and in the words of your original post said, "Its obvious they dont want to ride" to me, I would have politely asked you to mind your own business.


I would have not been so nice. You should be ashamed of yourself HB to speak that way to a parent in front of their children. "the kid " as you called him is a little person not an object to be taken away as to not disturb you. A little person that was obviously going through a tough time. Did you ever stop to think that the mother was probably very embarrassed to have her child screaming and then you make a rude comment on top of it.

Everyone parents their children differently. Unless you see a parent beating their child you should mind your own business.

I wasn't there but your comment to her was uncalled for!

mod note: fixed vB code. Adrienne K

HB does admit to not being a parent. This is not meant to be offensive to HB, but I have found that those without children often know the most about parenting. My two brothers-in-law were the same way when we had a kid and they had none. Once they each did, solutions weren't as readily available for every issue. Funny thing is now that they each have one and we have 3, they think they know all of the answers to sibling conflicts! Alas......

Originally posted by scaeagles
HB does admit to not being a parent. This is not meant to be offensive to HB, but I have found that those without children often know the most about parenting.

But I also think that's a dismissive remark that people use. While I wouldn't make a comment to a person whose child was doing whatever unless I thought the child was in some sort of danger or endangering someone else, I get annoyed when children are left to sob and wail incessantly without any attempt at intervention by the parent. Of course the parent can't always control what the child does - that's the nature of having a child. I know that without being a parent. I don't have children, but I've been in charge of children, so I know things don't always go as planned. But I always find amusing comments from people that you have to be a parent to have an opinion about parental issues.

Originally posted by cstephens
But I always find amusing comments from people that you have to be a parent to have an opinion about parental issues.

I used to, too. Before I had kids. ;)

And I don't mean that as dismissive in the least.

BK, people threw "that line" at me all the time, "Well, you don't understand because you don't have children of your own." I hated that line. I hated when people used it on me. I felt majorly dismissed.

So I don't use that line on anyone.

Outloud.

There's no way to say something like that without sounding insulting and dismissive. But everything got so different when I was put in charge, 24/7 of little people. There are a lot of things I said before I had kids that still hold true now that I have my own, but other things have changed. Black and white gets really gray, really fast.

And even as parents we say it to each other. I've had parents make statements that I totally disagree with and I often look at their children and realize: They never had a kid like Matthew! And when I look at their kids, I often think, "I never had a kid like that child, so I would probably think differently if I did."

It's a total learn as you go job. Totally. Someone recently said to me that she's not sure what she'll do when her baby's born. I know what she'll do: She'll learn as she goes just like we all do- and she'll do a great job at it, I'm sure of it. And I'll tell you the #1 place she'll probably go for tips and advice: Other parents. ;)

I have had a variety of people make comments to me: Parents and non-parents. I would be pretty annoyed at anyone who made a comment to me about my parenting. The last time I remember this happening I was at a (get this) religious education conference and someone thought I shouldn't have my baby there. ("I thought the registration book said to leave children at home!") She got an earful from me, you can betcha.

Adrienne

Originally posted by cstephens
But I always find amusing comments from people that you have to be a parent to have an opinion about parental issues. True, sort of. You don't have to be a parent to have an opinion, but if you're not a parent you probably don't know what you're talking about. I'm not a doctor but I can have opinions about medical issues. But if you follow my medical advice you're a fool.

Sorry, but it's true. Even if you have taken care of kids your whole life in a day care setting or whatever, you still don't know what it's like to be a parent. Kids act different with their parents than they do with other authority figures. It's a fact of life.

Also, all kids are different. Just because someone may know how to deal with their niece's problems doesn't mean they know what's best for my child and are free to dispense advice.

Even though I have 3 kids I still don't know enough about parenting to be telling people how they should or shouldn't be dealing with their kids. With our first we were going though things the first time and learning to adapt to his personality and parent him. With our second we thought we could take what we learned from our first and apply it to her. Not true! We have had to relearn a few things to deal with her differences. I'm sure we'll have to relearn a few more things and continue to adjust with our third. And the thing is, we've both been involved with children for most of our lives. Parenthood wasn't our first exposure to kids, but before we became parents we had some pretty "wrong opinions" about how things should be done.

I find it amusing that people who don't have kids find such comments to be dismissive and amusing.

ok ok , I'm an Early Childhood Specialist, Certified Teacher, State Certified Childhood Education Trainer, and Parent - and I can't BEGIN to understand what it is like for someone else parenting their children. I can tell them learning theories, ideas to try, and resources to use, but that's about it. My joke where I work is that I never bring my own son to my parenting classes - the participants would see that even my children NEVER read parenting books! Parenting is such a journey - thank goodness that Walt Disney gave us something so amazing to share with our children as they grow.

Originally posted by adriennek
And I'll tell you the #1 place she'll probably go for tips and advice: Other parents. ;)

I just wanted to clarify:

I don't think I have answers for anyone, and I think I made that clear early in my post, but I so totally agree with Comfy Cody and Bill's comments that I didn't want to sound like I think I have the answers for other parents.

When I think I need advice, I ask people with kids my kids' age or slightly older, "What do you think?" and then I figure out what I think will work best for my kids.

And ComfortCody: I so appreciate what you said about when you go to give parenting classes. I know someone who gives parenting classes, but her attitude is different from yours: she is certain that she has all the answers. She better not take her kids to her classes because they would tell a different story!

Adrienne

What Bill said.

You know, I didn't post to get lectured. :rolleyes: No, I don't have kids, no, I don't know what it's like to be a parent. Yes, I have tons of experience with kids, and yes, I know I am not the most polite tactful person. When you have a kid screaming in your ear because they are terrified of the ride and their mother is insistent on taking them on the ride while the CM is telling them to get off the ride so he can send the boat you can make your own judgment call.

Elisabeth, don't lecture me, I am not a child.

scaeagles, I never ever said I was trying to parent said child, nor do I know whats best for other peoples children. I am not one of those non-parents who knows everything about parenting and I hate being told that, or called that.

I stand by what I did, and I am so glad that CM refused to send the boat with a screaming kid. Please refraining from lecturing me, all I was trying to do is bring to light an experience I had at the park with a screaming kid who was obviously terrified of going on PotC.

Originally posted by Bill Catherall
True, sort of. You don't have to be a parent to have an opinion, but if you're not a parent you probably don't know what you're talking about.

That depends on what the exact topic is. If someone asks me how to care for a sick one-year-old, am I going to know? No, I won't. If someone asks me how to get their four-year-old to take to potty training, will I have anything useful to say? Nope, won't there either. But if I have the opinion that parents shouldn't allow small children to stay in a theatre when the child is screaming hysterically with no end in sight, is my opinion invalid because I don't have children? I don't think so either, but others may disagree. I've had people say that they have to take their four-year-old with them to see "Alien 3" at 10pm because they can't find a babysitter.

Now, if I were to say that if I had kids, my children would never do any of that stuff, then that's just a stupid thing to say. No one has any way to know exactly how their children are going to behave, so to guarantee behaviour on their behalf is ridiculous. If a child is screaming in public, I am annoyed with the parent if the parent is completely paying no attention to the child at all. In most cases. I've seen cases where the parent is trying to teach the child a lesson, and that makes sense, though I'm not sure I'm explaining that well. However, if I see a child screaming in public, and I see the parents trying to do something, but the child is just inconsolable, then I feel sympathy for both the parents and the child.

Even without having had kids, I've been around them enough to know that they are unpredictable, that what works for one kid in one situation isn't going to work for another kid in that same situation or even that same kid in another situation. I know enough about what an enormous responsibility it is to raise children to know that there are no easy answers. But then, I don't have kids, so I don't know what I'm talking about.

Your comment to me sounded pretty childish.

I take what you said as a threat. I'm not trying to start something with you nor need to "bring it" like you said

We are all intitled to our opinions and I gave mine.