OK Elisabeth, if you think I am being childish for my action...well I can't say what I want to say on a family friendly board. If you think I am threatening you via the internet? Excuse me while I die laughing. Thats the funniest thing I have heard all year! Since you can't resist the urge to keep lecturing me I am just going to ignore you. :rolleyes:

I try to not say "when I have kids I won't do this, or when I have kids I will do that". There are a few things I can say for sure (like repeating behaviors my mother did) that I won't do, and I can be sure I will never do them. I also know that I will ask parents who I have respect for what they think about xyz when I have kids.

ComfyCody, I love your attitude :)

I thought I'd chime in here since I was there when the screaming child was put into the boat behind us. The Child was indeed terrified of the ride and did NOT want to be a part of it. The CM had full control of the situation and would no let the boat depart with the screaming child. The CM handled the situation so well, that we went by city hall to leave him a compliment.

I did NOT hear HB Tigger Fan say anything to the child. I was, in fact, surprised to read that she did. The CM was clearly in control of the situation and no additional help was necessary. If something was said, it was said very quietly. I did not hear any rude comments made by anyone.

The family with the child realized that the boat would not depart with the child still screaming and they complied with the CMs request to get off the boat.

In my opinion, the CM did exactly what he was supposed to do - making the ride enjoyable for everyone - no matter if it was your first time on Pirates or your 100th.

So, carry on with the parenting discussion. I have nothing to add, since I am only an Aunt and Great Aunt to 18 and a mother to 4 troublesome fuzzy things.;)

Thank you very much for editing out the comment you made to me in your previous post. I'm done lecturing you if you feel that is what I have been doing.

Not Afraid,

I wasn't rude about it and I have witnesses ;) When I said what I said it was after the CM had let the mother know the boat would not depart with the screaming kid and the mother kept trying to quiet him down but not was not getting off the boat.

Elisabeth, I didn't edit my comment because of you. I edited it before you replied. For the record: I couldn't care less what you think of me or my actions. I edited it out because I posted it and then thought better of it, I did it for me, not you. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
You know, I didn't post to get lectured. :rolleyes:


Hardly anyone does. Some people deserve it though.

I'm finding this to be an interesting discussion and don't really know for sure what kind of approach that I would take. As frequent visitors to DL (and other theme parks), I'm sure this is something we are likely to deal with eventually as our first child is due this November.

A lot of the discussion here has focused on the parents and the child, but I think it is important to also take into consideration everyone else that is around. A few have made the comment that the original poster should mind her own business, but since this was all happening in front of her in a public place, it at least partially >was< her business. It was delaying the ride dispatch (which, if it goes on long enough, can potentially cause down time on Pirates) and also had a major potential to affect the quality of the ride experience for the other people on the boat.
At least to a degree, it seems that comments made to the parents in this type of situation would be more in one's own self-interest than commentary on parenting decisions.

This brings me a bit to the earlier discussion about whether or not someone that isn't a parent can really make informed opinions on parenting decisions. I have little doubt that my views on issues of parenting my own child will change dramatically once I become a parent and that I will be more apt to seek out the advice of those with experience than those without. I have little doubt that some of our decisions may occasionally seem questionable to outside observers and that we may feel a bit more sympathy for parents that previously might have irritated us.

I'm not convinced, though, that you actually need to be a parent to recognize how someone else's parenting decisions affect >you< when those decisions are being made in your vicinity. You may not know the context that leads to the decision-making, but I am inclined to think that it isn't unreasonable for parents to make at least a reasonable effort to minimize how disruptive their children are in public places.

My wife and I have had a number of discussions on this issue and certainly at least intend to do our best to learn from what we have observed during our frequent theme park visits as well as in other public venues like movie theaters, restaurants, shopping centers, etc. We hope that we will be able to teach our child to be respectful of others. I also hope that we will be able to learn the child's temperament and use good judgment on what activities are or are not appropriate to it.

I have little doubt that I would be proven wrong eventually if I tried to pretend that we will never make any of the types of parental decisions that have irritated us at times during our childless years. At the same time, though, I hope that we can find a way to balance our natural instincts to always make the decisions that we think are in the best interest of our child with the reality that those same decisions might sometimes be seriously disruptive to those around us. I expect that to be one of the many challenges of parenthood.

-Jeff

I'm going to chime in here also.

Elisabeth, clearly you feel as though you have been put on the defensive by HB's remarks, but if a disinterested 3rd party can come in and interpret:

What HB is getting at is that it is unfair for parents to expect the world to revolve around them and their parenting. There are times (like at the grocery store) when it is appropriate to teach your child public behavior, and there are times (like at the movie theater) when it is inappropriate. It all comes down to the purpose behind people's presence at a particular location. If people are at a place for the sole purpose of conducting a transaction, and that transaction is not materially affected by the caterwauling of your child, by all means, parent on. But if you and your child are at a place of comfort or entertainment (a day spa, or Disneyland, for example), then their experience is materially affected (negatively at that) by your parenting activities. This would be a time to suck it up, move off to the side, parent in private, then hopefully return to the public place with a better behaved child.

Those other guests paid $47 to hear Pirates sing, not to hear your child cry, and as important as your parenting activities are TO YOU AND YOUR CHILD, they are not that important to other guests, and those guests do not deserve to have their rights so heavily trampled on.

There are some parents who can be totally selfless when it comes to their kids, but completely selfish when it involves their family's relationship to the world. The OP is referring to one of those times when a parent should do their parenting outside the ride (perhaps at home, as some previous posters have related, finding ways to help their children with their fears before stepping foot in the queue)

I don't want you to feel like I'm jumping on you here, but as one of the huge population of childless adults, I get very annoyed when certain parents feel that their children are the only human beings who matter on this planet. You are not just part of a family, you are part of a society, and part of good parenting is teaching your children to be considerate of others.

That said, welcome to the boards! :)

Morrigoon and all else who care,

The only problem I had was the comment that was made to the mother of this child. From my understanding th CM had the problem under control why even get involved.

I'm not trying to start drama, I just feel I have the right to opinion. And if I were that women I would not have been nice.

I feel that HB Tigger Fan was in the wrong. Sorry my opinion. This dosen't mean I think she is a bad person just bad manners in this situation.

I don't understand why I am being singled out for my thoughts, but such is life :confused:

As far as the comments you made in your post Morrigoon I don't understand how they apply to my posts. If you want you can PM me and explain it so we can keep the drama off the board :)

Not trying to single you out dear, I just love to get knee deep in a good debate, especially ones that matter to me (and a few that don't, LOL)

You are right that HB didn't need to make a comment in the first place, but it would not have happened if the guest in question had shown some consideration for her fellow guests to begin with. My reponse is mostly pointed to the attitude that parents are the only ones with needs, and specifically those parents who put their wishes (child riding scary ride) above the wishes of the hundred or so others present (wishing to ride without having a screamer interrupt the experience)

I'm sorry that I pointed it at you, perhaps it should be more general -- So to those parents who HB was originally addressing:

Sure you paid $47 to get in and you want to get your money's worth by having little susie or johnny ride all the rides... but everyone around you paid $47 too, and it's not their problem if little johnny or susie is too scared... nor should it become their problem. If you make it their problem, expect that someone might make a snippy comment.

Originally posted by Elisabeth
The only problem I had was the comment that was made to the mother of this child. From my understanding th CM had the problem under control why even get involved.

I agree with Elisabeth.

As I mentioned in my original post on this thread, I have a problem with the fact that the parent made the choice that affected the rest of the boat. From what I'm reading, I think we all agree with that. As Jeff G (who's going to be a terrific Daddy!) wrote:

It was delaying the ride dispatch (which, if it goes on long enough, can potentially cause down time on Pirates) and also had a major potential to affect the quality of the ride experience for the other people on the boat

I also put in my original thread that I'm glad the CM was persistant because that was his job.

I saw at least two parents besides Elisabeth (me included) who have the same reaction to other people, not in authority positions like the CM was, in public places making comments to us about our parenting choices. I think what we're dealing with is two separate issues.

Adrienne

Originally posted by adriennek
I saw at least two parents besides Elisabeth (me included) who have the same reaction to other people, not in authority positions like the CM was, in public places making comments to us about our parenting choices. I think what we're dealing with is two separate issues.

BINGO.

I'd like to raise a point on the CM getting involved.

Let's say I took a boombox onto POTC. ANd turned it up way loud, and it was one of Michael Jackson's high pitched songs.

The CM would tell me to turn it off, as it would interupt other guests' experience.

Now, I know, a child and a radio (especially playing Jackson music), should never be compared. But, it was my choice to take the radio onto the ride... :p

(Duck & Run)

Originally posted by Morrigoon
Those other guests paid $47 to hear Pirates sing, not to hear your child cry, and as important as your parenting activities are TO YOU AND YOUR CHILD, they are not that important to other guests, and those guests do not deserve to have their rights so heavily trampled on.



While I tend to agree with this, I also notice that parent and child "parenting activities" and a child crying on a ride are probably the annoying behavior I notice the least on rides like Pirates. Usually what I notice are groups of adults or teenagers who think the world revolves around them and their hilarious antics. I rarely get a ride-through on Pirates or Haunted Mansion without someone deciding that its more important for me to hear their witty behavior than the ride narration or music.

I find it ironic that HB is offended by the so called lecturing from Elizabeth. Didn't that come up because of HB choosing to lecture a parent during this whole POTC thing?

I think things all the time. About how I would handle something differently than what I am witnessing. However, if I am not in authority over the situation I keep my mouth shut. I suppose the exception would be if I were to witness physical harm to a child, but fortunately I have not witnessed such a thing.

The issue is who is in charge. The CM was dealing with it, and even if the CM was not, the comment by HB was out of line.

The world would certainly be a better place if offense was not so easily taken. I have momentary disruptions in my "experience" at DL all the time from everything from - yes - unruly or crying children to rides going 101 to the EandC referenced teenagers who think they are humorous to trying to walk through adventure land in the afternoon on a Saturday.

I have been following this thread and in all honesty stayed out so far for a lot of reasons, however I feel the need to stick a little comment in here....


If anyone cares to go back to the original post and re read HBTF's comment... I don't see where that can be translated into her lecturing anyone. Should she have made this comment.... So I turned around and said "will you please take the kid off the boat? It is obvious he doesn't want to ride" is a matter of personal opinion, but no matter how I read that I don't see it as her lecturing the parent.


I agree with all the other parents here, that only a parent of a certain CHILD can decide what's right for that child....I personally would never attempt to tell Bill or AdrienneK what would be best for their children, nor do I appreciate it when an aquaintace tells me what's 'best' for mine. But I am not sure that HBTF's comment was as out of line as many here have decided it was since I see the word Please in the orignal comment. Tone of voice makes a world of difference as we all know.

Another padder who shall remain nameless has a saying that I love to "pirate" a lot these days

Time
Place
Occassion

You know this post has strayed so far from the OP (a major vent about forcing terrified hysterical kids onto rides and how it effects those around them) to what I feel is an attack on me and bashing non-parents for speaking of what they not know that I have decided to stay away from the thread. I would prefer it to be closed, however I know its not violating any community guidelines and won't be closed.

Bill, AK, and MS: I have seen you all with your kids, and from what I see you are awesome parents raising some awesome kids. If I can be as half as awesome as you 3 I would consider myself very lucky.

I want to end by saying this. If you actually read my OP you would see that I wasn't trying to parent the kid, I wasn't trying to lecture the mom, I was making a request. If you feel the need to bash non-parents to make yourself feel better about your parenting skills go for it. But leave me out of it.

I can see how a non-parent might take some of what has been said as a bash, but it really hasn't been meant that way. If I, as a parent, say that non-parents "don't know anything" it's not an observation of other people's skills or knowledge in comparison to my own. Actually, it's more of an observation of how much more I know now than I knew before. I'm comparing myself before kids to myself now. See, before I had kids I thought I had it all figured out. Then when I had them reality set in and I realized I really didn't know what I was doing. The fact that all parents say this kind of makes it a universal fact.

It's kind of like how you thought you knew everything when you were a teenager, but then you grew up. If you tell a "know-it-all" teenager that they don't really know it all they'll think you're just being dismissive, when really you're just stating that there's a whole lot of life that they haven't lived yet.

The more I learn the more I realize how much I don't know.

Originally posted by Bill Catherall
See, before I had kids I thought I had it all figured out. Then when I had them reality set in and I realized I really didn't know what I was doing. The fact that all parents say this kind of makes it a universal fact.

Is this actually true though? I've heard a number of people say that they thought they knew all this stuff until they had kids and then figured out they didn't know. I know for a fact that I don't know that much about raising kids. I have no illusions about that. Never had. I probably understand more now than I used to about certain parenting techniques or situations from observation and talking to parents, but I can't ever remember thinking that I knew what it was going to be like to be a parent. Did everyone else just have more idealized and/or unrealistic views of what a good parent was supposed to be? I've got friends who have kids who didn't spout the "I know everything" line until they had kids, so I know not everyone thinks that way. I'm confused. :confused: (Yeah, I know, that's redundant.)

Well, perhaps I misstated myself. I didn't mean everybody goes into parenthood thinking they've got it all figured out. But everyone does have some kind of game plan. You've got to. You think to yourself, "Well if my kid acts in this way I'll just deal with it like this." Or, "I like the way so-and-so disciplines her kids. I think I'll try that with mine." But I guarantee you that 99 out of 100 times what you want to do won't be what actually works and you have to adjust. If you just happen to get it right the first time then you're no genius, just a very lucky fool.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't have a game plan. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't at least try your first plan. It's just that parenthood is like scientific laboratory experiments. You try one thing, if it doesn't work then you try something else until you get it right. Once you find out what works, keep doing it.

So the next time you're in the grocery store and you see a lady there with a toddler who's pitching a fit in the candy isle and the mother just seems to be ignoring him, go ahead and think "If that were my child then I'd..." But just remember, the mother may have already tried that and it doesn't work. So add to your solution, "and if that doesn't work then I'll...and if that doesn't work then I'll..." Or perhaps the mother is already doing what works.

Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
I want to end by saying this. If you actually read my OP you would see that I wasn't trying to parent the kid, I wasn't trying to lecture the mom, I was making a request. If you feel the need to bash non-parents to make yourself feel better about your parenting skills go for it. But leave me out of it.

HB -

I reread the original post, and I apologize for saying you had lectured the parent. I have a sensitive spot about anyone who feels they know better than I do what is best for my children, including relatives and the government. You clearly did not lecture the parent.

My parenting skills are always in doubt in my own mind, as I am certain most every parent would admit to as well. Talking about what you did is not intended as a "bash", and most certainly not intended to make me feel better about my own skills, as nothing can when they are acting like savages - and they do, and when they do, I know it.

However, I will absolutely stand by the statement that no one can know what it is like to be a parent until they are one. I'll just say that I would have handled it differently, and I think that because I am a parent. I very well may have said more than you did befre becoming one, as I am not one to usually keep my opinions to myself.

I know that I would be offended if someone told me what HB told this parent. But, that's not to say that I don't give dirty looks to parents who don't control their kids. I just would never tell another parent what to do with their child. It's an embarassing situation to begin with, made all the more uncomfortable by a stranger trying to give you advice.

I do not take my son on rides that I know he won't like. I fhe even starts crying at the grocery store, I will leave the store rather than annoy the people around me.

However, on Friday when Largent81 and I were getting on Soarin' at DCA, there was a little boy right next to us screaming his head off!!!! He was kicking, screaming and crying as his mom tried to buckle his seat belt. I, of course, thought that she should have just taken him off the ride and waited for her party at the exit. A CM came over and asked if he would be alright for the ride. The mom was just struggling to keep him sitting down, I didn't hear what she said. then the CM knelt down and asked the little boy if he wanted to go flying over Disneyland and see the fireworks and Tinkerbell from way up high in the sky. Amazingly, the boy stopped crying, even got a little excited, and we were on our way. The little boy got off the ride with a smile on his face. Angie asked him if he liked it and he nodded yes. The same CM came over and gave him a "Bravery" sticker. I wish I would have noticed the CM's name, he was great!!!!

OK, so now that I know about people's feelings about taking crying kids on rides, what do you all think of crying kids on airplanes? We are going to New York in December and it will be my son's first time on a plane and I don't know how he'll take it.:((Anyone have any first time airplane stories?

I too am with the other parents on being offended if someone said something to me.

Then there are moments like SoCalSnowWhite and I went through. We were obviously talking about the situation right in front of the mother. Making comments like, "It's so hard to see that" or "I'm too wimpy with my boy to let him cry". Never anything "harsh". I was embarrassed at the time for saying what I did, but as soon as the CM came over and calmed him down, it was so worth it. Watching that little boys face throughout the ride as he sat so cute in an indian style just made my first time Soarin' experience a hundred times better. I was amazed at how fast he settled down. He was so cute.

I do agree that if a child is screaming his head off and terrorized, most times he should not be on the ride. There are times though that they can be reasoned with and everyone comes out happy.

Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
You know this post has strayed so far from the OP (a major vent about forcing terrified hysterical kids onto rides and how it effects those around them) to what I feel is an attack on me and bashing non-parents for speaking of what they not know that I have decided to stay away from the thread.

I disagree that the thread has strayed very far from what was stated in the original post (although it may have strayed from the intent of the original poster). The original post said, this:

Moral here: If your little darling is screaming or scared to go on a ride, don't force them! Hopefully a CM will refuse to send you off with your scared child so your little darling doesn'tt ruin it for the rest of us who don't want to hear the screaming and crying from a scared child.

I've gone back and re-read the thread, and most of the posts are in the vein of why a parent might at least try to get a child on a ride they seem to not want want to go on. That seems like a valid subject of discussion based on the original post and also comprises the lion's share of the posts in the thread.

Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
If you feel the need to bash non-parents to make yourself feel better about your parenting skills go for it. But leave me out of it.

This is a bunch of baloney. There has been as much bashing of non-parents by parents as there has been bashing of parents by non-parents. That is, almost none.

A couple of people disagreed with the idea that the original poster should have said anything to the mother if the CM was handling it. Also a valid topic of discussion as it was covered in the original post. In response to their comments, they got stuff like "I didn't post to get lectured" and "I couldn't care less what you think of me or my actions."

Originally posted by HB Tigger Fan
I would prefer it to be closed, however I know its not violating any community guidelines and won't be closed.

Hmmmmm....I'm flashing back to a recent signature line another Padder had. It said something like.....no one is forcing you to be here, so stop asking for threads to be closed just cause you don't like what they say. I wish I could remember who that was.

Originally posted by SoCalSnowWhite
OK, so now that I know about people's feelings about taking crying kids on rides, what do you all think of crying kids on airplanes?

Well, of course it's not pleasant to be in enclosed quarters with a crying kid, but on an airplane, there's not a lot that can be done. I get annoyed when parents don't take a crying kid out of a theatre, but in an airplane, it's not like they have anywhere else to go. But then, I get annoyed with people in airplanes who kick the back of my chair or who yank on the back of my chair when they get up. If I'd wanted a rocking chair, I'd have asked for one.

Originally posted by cstephens
Well, of course it's not pleasant to be in enclosed quarters with a crying kid, but on an airplane, there's not a lot that can be done. I get annoyed when parents don't take a crying kid out of a theatre, but in an airplane, it's not like they have anywhere else to go.

Yikes!!! I am so worried!:( Any ideas on how I can prepare him for a plane ride?