JRob2k1...

I'm fairly opinionated on this board...with folks who are also Diz fan/atics etc...but not in personal life do I go on and on about Disney. Well I have lots of friends who are ride junkies but not nec, Dizney nuts....and one of these just E mailed me an interesting NON Disney fanatic reaction to the Disney Sea photos. With out ANY editorialising on my part..I just sent him to the TDS photos as a point of interest...the response?
They are cancelling their planned trip to WDW and re-aiming for Japan. These photos are pretty darn compelling.
Tells me alot....and if this is moderately common, it will tell the pinheads at Diz alot as well.
Fingers are crossed for that 3rd park now!

Thanks Doodle...

Like you said the pictures dont lie. All the effort to "lower" TDS's accomplsihments will fall flat on the face in front of those pictures.

I have never seen anything like TDS (IOA was amazing, but lacked that Disney touch!). TDS will be success just because of the Japanese population. But I hope that the word of mouth gets out and more and more people start thinking about heading over there for once.

As for that third park - My fingers are also crossed!!

-JRob

After seeing the TDS photos and having been to DCA, I feel there is little that can be done to bring DCA up to TDS level. Painting "Stage 17" on the side of a warehouse that has a lame game show inside isn't going to do it. All we can hope is that the current management has learned a lesson and that the 3rd gate will prove that DCA is just the appitizer before the blow your mind dinner. They have one more chance.

Stage 17? hmmm, I need new glasses I thought it was "Stalag 17"

I'll have to say this: I am MOST impressed by DisneySeas. This is what a Disney attraction should be in the FIRST place. :)

Why do I think that within 6-7 years the California Adventure will be completely revamped because of its poor comparison to DisneySeas?

More like 6-7 months when the bottom falls out of new bookings at the resorts in the states.

Jeez this thread is long. Took like half an hour to read! Okay, where to start. First of all, DCA is not as good as Magic Mountain, and probably comparable with Knott's, except during the Halloween Haunts. There is nothing better than Knott's during the month of October(at least in the evening).
I was bored at Knott's within three hours, even during their Halloween thing they do
Don't know whats up with you Alex, but maybe you should give it more than three hours. Try going early, like around Oct 4th or so, when its not so crowded.
And now, for TDS. Well, deadhead has a good point, a lot of the rides are copies. Little mermaid land is a lot like paradise pier, just with nicer paint jobs and a few animatronics here and there. Indiana Jones is Indiana Jones, whether its Mara and the forbidden eye or the glowing skull. But there's nothing wrong with bringing a successful attraction from one park to another for them to enjoy. The point is that its not the only thing there. DCA has Soarin going for it, TPS has the Storm ride which is ten times better, from the looks of it. TPS also has 20,000 leagues under the sea, DCA has nothing that can compare. TPS has Journey to the Center of the Earth, again, DCA can not compare. And the boat and train rides? They are actually highly effective tools that help you believe that you really are being transported to another place, the one thing above all else that makes Disneyland so magical. If TPS has seven differently themed ports, you can't walk to them, you have to take a ship, just like you would in real life. The ride itself isn't something to write home about, but it is an effective tool at adding to your overall enjoyment of the place. Plus TPS has stuff for kids, where DCA does not. But the whole allure that Disney has is its atmosphere, and TPS most definately has that. Not too many people go to Disneyland because they think the rides there are better than Magic Mountain, at least, not the ones that are into roller coasters. I can say, however, that Japaneese tourists most definately buy way way more merchandise than American tourists, but I wonder if it will be the same when it suddely is their home park instead of the vacation of a lifetime to Disneyland in Southern CA? Still, though, I think its obvious from the pictures that TPS is far far superior to DCA, and so far we've only seen a hotel, main street and tom sawyer's island! We haven't even seen the real highlights of the park yet.

Oh, and to whoever was asking, you do a quote by putting the words (quote spelled correctly, of course) on either side of whatever it is you want to quote. Or use the button at the bottom.

After seeing this picture of TDS

http://www.mouseplanet.com/tokyo/tdstour/tds52.jpg

I firmly believe that there is no saving DCA. I say burn it to the ground, plow it under and start over completely from scratch. Einser and the rest of his crew of bookkeeping yes men should be fired as a warning to others.

DCA to the ground?
Well...Grizzly sure IS nice...and Hollywood has lots of potential...The wave fountain is cool..and the building that houses 'whoopie' is a gem...I don't know...maybe start with the midway rides which come down easy anyway and add REAL themed attractions...New front and que on SSL for the Goofy re-hab..RE-Shoot a NEW Muppet movie (Nice theater!)...The bugs are good as is...LOSE the farm and the stupid tortillas and the bread...cut the Winery (wrong crowd) down to workable size...can all be done without losing alot of the really nice elements that at present just don't gel properly. Can the theme too. But burn it down? Nah. (not yet)

Here is what I posted in another mousepad forum about fixing DCA - although after seeing that picture, I still we should burn it to the ground and start over.

"Move Country bear play house to where the Goldberg movie plays. Move that entire San Francisco facade to the other side of the Warf area as the Grizzly Bear theming extends down that street (why is there anyway).

Put a Tailspin dark ride next to Soaring (there is a vacant grassy area there now), that runs on a suspended track (like Peter Pan).
Replace the restaurant in CF with just a simple snack stand (akin to Stage door Cafe) and use that space, including some from Downtown Disney, for either a history of aviation exhibit (place to get out of the heat), or another motion simulator (Star Tours meets Test Track)

Burn down the farm and expand San Francisco with all new earthquake attraction - Universal's meets Alien Encounter.

Put in a new land based on China Town in the Timon Lot with a suspended Dragon coaster, Mulan dark ride, and a Cable car that runs the length of this China town and down into the SF Warf area. Don't forget some curio and food stands.

Lose Tough to Be a Bug, and put a giant "weenie" in the center of the park with an audio animatronics history of California attraction inside - akin to Epocts Spaceship earth. Can you say branding? I knew that you could.

Remove Muppet 3d and put a carousel of progress/America sings with each scene showing how a movie gets made (from concept, to premier).

Rip out a Stupid Star Lamo and replace with a wild ride through LA streets (mr toad meets goofy). Extend the street in front of the theatre to a Twilight Tower of Terror and connect it to the aforementioned China town area.

Clear out the space where the Carny Games currently and use the space for a bumper car attraction.

Lose the mad mouse coaster, Zephyr, Spinner, MacDonald's, Sunglass hut, Jellyfish, Rustworthy (did I miss anything) and create a walk-through fun house, a tilt-a-whirl, a boat dock for pedal boats, a boat dock for water parade floats, and a small coaster (knotts jaguar or its old corkscrew in size). Size permitting a arena for skateboarding/BMX expositions.

These are all based on current attractions. Nothing new. Nothing Disney couldn't either be lifted from its one of the theme parks, or buy third party. Each maintains the theme of the surrounding area, builds on an existing brand (Tailspin - great for the CF area), or builds important new branding. Some of the above changes open the traffic flow so that lull areas (the street in front of Hyperion Theatre) see foot traffic of guests going someplace."

RE: Eisner not wanting media at Disney Seas

Well, if this was true then he overlooked the new Disney Magazine that is sent out every quarter. It has 7 pages of information, similar to what they did for DCA. There is a really great two page spread map too. Just thought this might help you guys!!

Obviously it has to do with the leak at MP. Amazing the power of this site.:cool:

Originally posted by MMFan


Another criterion is whether a theme or amusement park is fun or not. Most visitors will find at least a little that's fun in almost all of the parks in America. Sort of comparable to the idea that a person can get an education at any college in the USA, and therefore it's less important whether you end up at Stanford or the junior college down the street. In fact, some could argue that a prestige university is no better than a junior college, at least in a few areas, and in trying to deal with their differences, advantages and flaws, a person is splitting hairs or being too picky.

And sure, there's similarities between DCA and TDS, but there's also similarities between Stanford (or Berkeley, or UCLA) and the junior college down the street.

You can't possibly be serious when you compare differences between universities and differences between theme parks.

Universities are centers of learning. They set the stage for your future. Attendance at one university as oopposed to another can make the difference between earning a hundred grand a year or a million a year.

Theme parks exist for two reasons: to make money for the people who own them, and to provide fun for their visitors. I find all parks fun to some degree, with DL remaining my personal favorite. I had fun at DCA, and I'm sure I would have fun at TDS. I might even have more fun at TDS than DCA. That in now way erases the fact that DCA has a lot of things that I enjoyed. It also has things I didn't enjoy. So what? We're talking about theme parks for goodness sake.

If someone builds a park that you find un-fun, might I suggest that you don't visit it. After all, it's not as if your entire future is riding on it......

Originally posted by JRob2k1
Disney Deadhead-

I dont know why you are trying to ruin TDS for me. Its not going to work anyways. TDS is what I expected from DCA. Sure I liked DCA, but I feel that it should have been a lot more better. When I look at pics of TDS, it is everything I expected in a new park and so much more.

Im a DL AP, so usually my big summer trip is to WDW. Guess what, next year instead od WDW, its TDL Resort!! I dont if this will suprise you, but the trip is roughly the same price. So the only new difference is we're flying in a new direction.

DisneySea is going to be amazing, and there is nothing anyone can do to make it sound worse!!

"I'm so excited, and I just cant hide it..." :D

-JRob

Is that what I'm doing, trying to "ruin TDS for you"? I don't even know you. And I have stated repeatedly that TDS looks wonderful, and that I have no doubt that I would enjoy a visit. Sorry if that upsets you.

I certainly didn't expect TDS instead of DCA, not with the amount land they had and with the amount of money they spent.

Since you are a WDW fan, I wonder what you'll think of the setting in which TDS sits......very Anaheimish if you ask me.

You are taking this discussion WAY too seriously if you actually believe I'm trying to make it sound worse than it is. I leave that sort of thing to the people who criticize DCA as if it were the end off western civilzation.

Disney Deadhead wrote: You can't possibly be serious when you compare differences between universities and differences between theme parks.

I used the example of colleges/universities as but just one area where people will discuss the differences, similarities and quality of things. And since this is a board dealing with theme parks and Disney theme parks in particular, you're going to find discussions about the differences, similarities and quality of...theme parks! Just as if this were a discussion board about restaurants, we'd be dealing with the quality of...restaurants. Or if this were a board about movies, we'd be debating the quality of...movies! And so on, and so forth. Also, if this were a board about stereos and TVs, it sure would help to talk about the differences, similarities and quality of such equipment, because who'd want to get stuck with lousy products, especially if they prefered (even demanded) Dolby-quality sound or HDTV-quality screen clarity. And sure, you can enjoy a movie or TV show to varying degrees on a regular TV, but watching it on HDTV is that much more of a quality experience.

>>If someone builds a park that you find un-fun, might I suggest that you don't visit it. After all, it's not as if your entire future is riding on it......<<

It certainly is if the field is your profession or creative interest. The preceedents set by visionless apparatchiks affect everything you've worked hard to accomplish (or ever dreamed about) and could alter what is possible in the future not only from that company but from its competitors. So history has shown.

The stakes are high for those who care, and even for those who don't - - as the Disney Company's only great successes have come through creative risk.

Why are only the ego needs of those on the business side important?

Originally posted by Disney Deadhead


Is that what I'm doing, trying to "ruin TDS for you"? I don't even know you. And I have stated repeatedly that TDS looks wonderful, and that I have no doubt that I would enjoy a visit. Sorry if that upsets you.

I certainly didn't expect TDS instead of DCA, not with the amount land they had and with the amount of money they spent.

Since you are a WDW fan, I wonder what you'll think of the setting in which TDS sits......very Anaheimish if you ask me.

You are taking this discussion WAY too seriously if you actually believe I'm trying to make it sound worse than it is. I leave that sort of thing to the people who criticize DCA as if it were the end off western civilzation.


Ehh..whatever!

Im going to DisneySeas in the Spring. I'm going to have an amazing time!! See you there???

As for taking this discussion seriously..yes I do!! I LOVE Disney, but keep it on the down-low in my personal life. Here I can rant on and on, because its JUST a discussion board. I'm having fun being WAY TOO SERIOUS!! If you dont like it, then maybe you're being way too serious.

If something means a lot to somebody, but not as much as you..Dont try and put them "down" because you dont feel that way.

Oh wait...Was that too serious???

Relax, Im kidding!!!:cool:

-JRob

Originally posted by Alex Stroup
I, too, prefer DCA over Knott's. Only a couple rides that have even slight re-do value.

I haven't really enjoyed either of my trips to Knott's. And I still remain confused about what is so good about the chicken at Knott's. It is just fried chicken. It is good, but nothing special.

I was bored at Knott's within three hours, even during their Halloween thing they do. It isn't even a half-day park for me. Knott's really made me understand how important the general atmosphere at Disney is to me, and that is something that DCA still has a lot of - even if it isn't as immersive as Disneyland.

Only a couple rides that have even slight re-do value.
did you even ride anything????
I could ride Ghostrider and Supreme Scream all night.. its the best coaster in the world...
Supreme Scream is WAY scarier than Mailboomer...
i would rather have Ghostrider than ANY steel coaster... i think many people would agree with me...
you did everything in 3 hours? geez must have been short lines... and i assume you didnt want to ride anything twice...
"general Disney atmosphere?" you mean the cheaply thrown together theming that DCA has?
Knott's has Ghost Town... the best theming ive seen (besides Disneyland) that doesn't make you feel like they just want your money...
also they have great landscaping (plants and stuff) around Fiesta Village and the Jaguar area...
oh and for kids there is Camp Snoopy that has some good kiddie rides... and there is Jaguar... the best outside "family" coaster ever...
sure lots of Knott's isn't themed but that's usually because the rides themselves are pretty good at getting attention themselves... Supreme Scream you can watch people probably the most scared they will be in their lives... Perilous Plunge you can see this HUGE splash coming up from the boats.. and it makes a LOUD 'smack' noise
GRR is obviously better than Bigfoot.... but Knott's has Timber Mountain Log Ride and Calico Mine Ride for which DCA has no equivalent...
the point is...
Knott's has some theming but it doesn't feel "cheap" kinda like DCA's does... it feels like DCA's theming is there just to take your money... i cant really describe it...
also... DCA tried to be a combo thrill park-family park and screwed up kinda bad...
they do have Screamin' and Mailboomer... both great rides... but can't compare to their counterparts at Knott's...
and on top of that... Knott's has Montezooma, Perilous Plunge, Boomerang, and a bunch of flat rides...
so... um.. Knott's is better

Reading this whole discussion has been really great! Lots of people with lots of different opinions.

In response to some of the things Disney Deadhead has said, I feel that if you can't discuss the quality and your opinions of Disney parks on a Disney discussion board, where should you discuss them? It seems perfectly reasonable to have a discussion about what you like and don't like. And if you have passion about it, all the better. Alot of the people on these boards likely don't run around all day saying "I can't believe Paradise Pier isn't themed better" or "Steps in Time sucks, they need to tweak the 2nd half." They probably want to discuss it with others who are interested on this board.

MMFan is right, this could be about movies or other entertainment related things. Haven't you ever discussed movies with your friends? Saying things like "I loved that movie" while a friend mentions they didn't like it? Do you just immediately end the discussion by saying, "well no sense in discussing it" or do you both give your opinions. Sure, minds aren't usually changed, but it's interesting to see other perspectives.

Look at Wackokids last post. Is Alex suddenly going to slap himself on the head and say "I never realized it but Knotts is better than DCA." Unlikely, but I like to hear both opinions, just for fun, just for comparison sake.

>It seems perfectly reasonable to have a discussion about what you like and don't like. And if you have passion about it, all the better.

I agree. I think the problems arise when people start debating parks they haven't visited yet. That seems to be a common theme.

>>I think the problems arise when people start debating parks they haven't visited yet. That seems to be a common theme.<<

Have you been to DCA yet? I have... It sucks!

I haven't been to Tokyo DisneySeas yet, but the PICTURES LOOK AMAZING! I can't wait to visit!

Is there a problem with those statements that doesn't fit your agenda?.... Sorry! I'm sure you can find kindred spirits at alt.disney.disneyland.

I remember reading somewhere that Walt wanted to make sure postcards and film were affordable at Disneyland because he knew that a good picture was worth a thousand words for spreading word of mouth about his park. Guess that marketing concept still works (both ways!).:)

Hmmm. I didn't know I had an agenda. I was just making a general statement about how arguments sometimes get out of hand.

Decaf anyone?

The fact I'm taking time in the morning before I head off to work to write this should tell you how much I appreciate the photos of TDS from MP and Todd Meigan in particular. The coverage has been great, and I've clicked on to MP every day with much anticipation as to what new things would be shown at the park. So much so, I'm not even missing any updates about DL and DCA. Today is no exception.

The shots of the ML area have left me in a haze, a daze. Considering what I've seen on visits to DCA, now I kind of know what a kid must go through after he or she has discovered that the parents are giving the brother or sister the better gifts, is taking that sibling out to the better restaurants, is promising him or her keys to a brand-new car (while the kid is given the clunker, or has to walk everywhere), is letting him or her stay up late, is giving him or her free reign of the house, and is offering him or her fully-paid tuition to a top university (while the kid is told to flip burgers after graduating from high school).

The comparison of JJ at TDS and JJ at DCA makes me think of those before-and-after pictures, the ones showing a person bald and then with a full head of hair, or the ones showing the before-and-after differences caused by liposuction or a big facelift, including a significant nose job. Or the photos of something at a Disney park and something at a struggling competitor's park (even a sub-Six Flags park), where the owners are desparately straining to copy even a tiny amount of the creative flair that Disney has been known for---at least before DCA popped up.

If you read these boards, Al, thanks for the series on TDS, but I kind of wish there weren't any shots of DCA intruding upon the images coming out of TDS. They sort of spoil the specialness of what I'm seeing in that new theme park far away in the Land of the Rising Sun. Dropping in photos of DCA is kind of like inserting passages from a pulp-fiction paperback into the middle of a pretty darn good novel, if not a literary classic.

And, BTW, I notice there are parts of the ML area that weren't even included among today's set of photos. I know there's a small coaster aboveground and I believe a few other attractions in the building. I hope you can include more shots of these other features of TDS in the future. (hint, hint, Todd).

Originally posted by wtg2000
I agree. I think the problems arise when people start debating parks they haven't visited yet. That seems to be a common theme.

I think it is perfectly valid to debate that. After all, that's what a tourist does before deciding if he's coming to visit California this year or Tokyo.

That's how a Disney guest decides where (s)he will spend their money. Based on which looks like the better value. They don't usually go to both, then decide which is better (except freaks like me).

I wouldn't like it if people were down on TDS without seeing it, but very few are doing that. Most of the negative comments in this discusion are about DCA, and most of the negative posters HAVE visited that one.

I say, there's nothing wrong with driving around in a car that you found out was a lemon, when a beautiful Toyota zips past you on the freeway. Envy is the natural reaction.


-Kuzcotopia

[Moderator's note: vB code fixed in quoted material.]