Disney Seas...I'm gonna hurl...

[Corith]

Its about the economic model that Pressler sees. Pressler didn't see the NEED to spend 14 billion (or more) to build DCA. As far as him and Einser are concerned, they are going to get the same number of guests if they spend a 10th of that.

Why spend hugh somes of money on attractions when shops are the real profit centers. What they don't understand, can't understand, is that unique phenomonon that is Disney. The general public expects a level of quality with Disney theme parks. And, until TDS raised that level, it was equal to Disneyland and Epcot. Consumers come to DCA and compare it to Knotts, Magic Mountain, Legoland, because it holds nothing really new. It fails to live up the image that the public expects of a Disney theme park. We know what to expect from non-mouse theme parks when we go. Do we really expect to see the same attention to detail at Magic Mountain?.

The Anit-walt team tried to sell the public that DCA was they best they could do under the current circumstances. The preview pics of TDS have are proving they tried to con us. Look at how passionate the posts are regarding TDS. We are hopping mad that Eisner built next to the orginal a . . a . . a pale piece of a pigs ear (can't really use better because of moderation, but you all now what I mean) and spin us a sob story about american economics. No matter what Disney does now, DCA will never, ever be able to live up to DL or any other Disney theme park. The stigma it aquired, just since the opening last Feburary, was only augmented by the opening of TDS.

[JRob2k1]

Here's another comment that makes me feel...

Its from Marc Boreli, and its on his latest TDS update at LP.

"During construction I spoke with more than one Imagineer who had experienced a very interesting problem - They weren't spending enough money! The accounting department was on their backs because they still had money in their budget at the of the month. It was making it difficult to balance the books. "

All I can say is.....WOW! Here they are building what obviously is one of the greatest Disney Parks ever, and they are still under budget. OLC wanted the best and were obviously willing to pay for it.

Why, why, why?????

I bet DCA's "budget" was stretched to the furthest it would allow. And yet TDS had money left over, even after spending more then the entire DL Resort expansion!!

Just remember, Cynthia Harris said it best. "DCA will be really good in 10 years!!!"

But TDS is GREAT now!! I look foward to seeing it in person next spring!

-JRob

[Disney Deadhead]

TDS definitely looks amazing. The level of detail and sheer scale of the thing is awesome. But it is hardly a great theme park, at least not yet.

There are 4 rides that I find interesting. 20,000, Journey, Sinbad (looks like IASW) and Indy (clone of existing DL attraction). 2 could be classified as original.

The rest of the rides are....yes, very similar to those found in DCA (Jumpin Jellyfish, sea-themed carousel), or are......yes, carnival rides. A Himalaya??? Teacups? Dumbo? Gadget's?

Then you have transportation rides: vehicles (like Main Street) a boat (like any boat anywhere) and a trolley (like any trolley anywhere). Oh, and don't forget Aquatopia (bumper boats that are supposed to remind you of the Autopia? Great idea...not).

The hotel is even worse. An almost direct copy of the Venetian Hotel in Las Vegas (gondola ride, Venice, ceiling paintings which are worse than the ones in Vegas) with bits stolen from the Bellagio (Italian Hill Country village exterior).

Uggh. Even with $3billion the Imagineers have only managed to come up with 2 E-ticket rides. The theming is magnificent; but much of that is just pretty fluff covering up what basically is nothing.

It's clear that the Imagineers, with a couple of notable exceptions at TDS, have run out of mental gas.

[Kuzcotopia]

I beg to differ, Disney Deadhead.

You didn't mention several attractions. The major one being Stormrider. This is the biggest simulator ride ever built. It seats over 100 people per show, and it is the only simulator with in-cabin weather effects and windows on the sides as well as the front.

You also didn't mention Magic Lamp Theater. This 3-D movie/stage show combination was created by Disney Feature Animation under the direction of Eric Goldberg (who animated the Genie in Aladdin and also the Rhapsody in Blue and Carnival of the Animals segments in Fantasia/2000).

You also gave Aquatopia the short-shrift calling it "bumper boats" when in fact they are far more sophisticated than that. They are computer-controlled so they DONT bump. In fact, they aren't boats at all, but merely cars riding on a cushion of water. Their interaction with whirlpools and rocks are as a result of a trackless artificial intellegence system similar to the one that controls Tokyo Disneyland's multi-million dollar Pooh attraction.

And you totally gloss over the other big rides like Journey, which has the largest animatronic creature ever built, Sinbad, which has the largest animatronic cast ever assembled, Indiana Jones, which had to be completly re-engineered for electrical cars and a completely new theme with new show effects, Leagues which is the first dry-for-wet dark ride ever... and a park with TWO huge interactive playgrounds that EACH put all of toontown to shame... and OH YEAH, the fact that the park is the most elaborate and beautiful in the world. Two lagoon shows, with HUGE sailing ships... and a VOLCANO that erupts sending balls of fire hundreds of feet into the sky.....

You seem to think that the MiraCosta was ripped off from Italian-themed hotels in Las Vegas?!!? That is the strangest idea of all. Is it even remotely possible to you that they are ripped off from, oh, let's say ITALY?!!?

They stole the paintings on the ceiling from the VENITIAN?!!? Ever heard of the Sistine Chapel? Michelangelo? Any of those dudes?

-Kuzcotopia

[Disney Deadhead]

How the heck do you quote in this forum?

I'll rough it until I figure it out.

As far as Stormrider goes, it's a simulator. It appears to be a very good one as well, and I have no doubt whatsoever that I would enjoy it. But I've been on a lot of simulators, and have come to this conclusion: simulators are simulators. I prefer rides.

As to the stage show, I dislike all stage shows. I prefer rides.

Aquatopia looks to be a real disappointment. They spend tons of money on technology and the bumper boats don't even bump? What do you do? Flop around on a sheet of water for 3 minutes? I also have become weary of these Imagineers constantly self-referencing. They give it a name like the Autopia, and build a queue that looks like the Autopia queue, and everyone in Japan is supposed to go "hey, look, the Autopia from Disneyland!" Who cares. They should spend all that money and creative energy on original rides like 20,000 and Journey and forget trying to clever. It's as if they would rather amuse themselves than entertain the public. Very reminiscient of the "New" Tomorrowland at DL. Sinbad looks like IASW, with those short dolls and painted plywood. They have millions of figures I guess, and again I'm sure I would enjoy it. But it didn't look like anything new to me.

I don't mean to gloss over 20,000 or Journey, both are just what I was hoping see. I would without question be thrilled and amazed by them. But my post was about the overblown reaction to TDS on this site and was meant to point out the fact that TDS has many things that aren't all that great.

What does that big Columbia ship do? The big ship at Treasure Island moves, fights, and sinks. I love exploding volcanos, I've always loved the one at the Mirage, so I would expect to like the one at TDS.

I can tell you've never seen the Venetian. It is a spectacular recreation of Venice, and the paintings, much like the ones at the Mira Costa, have nothing to do with the Sistine Chapel. The Sistine Chapel is in Rome. The Venetian has a boring gondola ride, and now TDS has a boring gondola ride. The exterior of the Mira Costa is almost an exact replica of the Bellagio, only without the spectacular fountains.

The Imagineers have run out of ideas. They make copies of copies and even with multiple billions to play with still saw fit to include a Himalaya (which even DCA doesn't have), teacups, transportation rides, basic kiddie coaster, radio controlled boats (like the ones at every park), Jumpin Jellyfish, etc. Maybe they are wonderfully themed, but overlays of fiberglass don't hide the fact that the creativity here is suffering. Beautiful facades are great, but I prefer that what's under or inside the facade be something special. Think POTC and HM. I see two attractions here that meet that standard, the rest is just very expensively fitted out typical amusement park rides.

[JRob2k1]

Originally posted by Disney Deadhead


There are 4 rides that I find interesting. 20,000, Journey, Sinbad (looks like IASW) and Indy (clone of existing DL attraction). 2 could be classified as original.

The rest of the rides are....yes, very similar to those found in DCA (Jumpin Jellyfish, sea-themed carousel), or are......yes, carnival rides. A Himalaya??? Teacups? Dumbo? Gadget's?

Then you have transportation rides: vehicles (like Main Street) a boat (like any boat anywhere) and a trolley (like any trolley anywhere). Oh, and don't forget Aquatopia (bumper boats that are supposed to remind you of the Autopia? Great idea...not).

Imagineers have only managed to come up with 2 E-ticket rides. The theming is magnificent; but much of that is just pretty fluff covering up what basically is nothing.

Wow, if you think this is all fluff, you must hate DCA with a passion!!

For the record, Jumpin Jellyfish was designed for TDS and then thrown into DCA at the last minute. It looks the other way because DCA opened first!! As for the kiddie rides (teacups, coaster, JJ), have you seen the enviornment they are in!!! The built a huge "underwater" environment that from what I've heard is extremely realistic. All these rides are indoors, minus the coaster. But see I dont mind these types of rides when they are themed extremely well, and you cant argue that even the smallest rides are heavily themed!! By the way the carosuel is in the Arabian Coast and it is unique to TDS. It's a double-decker, with individual themed charatcers.

As for the transportation cars/trolleys/canal boats, etc... These are great for 2 reasons. One - it enhances the theme and experience. Two it adds different types of rides for all people. Think of Main Street - it wouldnt be the same withtout the period cars. These types of gentle rides really appeal to people and I like them too.

TDS has everything for the family. Teens/Adults have the amazing e-tickets. There are 5 of them by the way(Journey, Stormrider, 20,000, Sinbad, and Indy). Kids have the Mermid Lagoon and the fortress. The elderly can ride the transportation (my Grandma's favorite part of Disneyland is riding in the double-decker bus!) and then there is the entertainment, which is for the whole family.

Besides are "overblown" reactions come from seeing what the Japanese got in their second gate and then looking across the plaza and seeing the golden gate bridge. You see my point??

I cant wait until spring vacation. TDS/TDL...watch out!

-JRob

[wtg2000]

It's silly to criticize a park for having transportation and simple attractions. These are staples that always need to be there. Not everything can be an E-ticket. And kids deserve rides as well. Sound like TDS has a lot for the younger guests. And theatre attractions are popular with older guests who don't always like being tossed upside down and sideways.

Should they just tell the guests, "sorry, you have to walk everywhere because we didn't want to seem cheap and have simple transportation like boats and trains and cars?"

As for the MiraCosta and the Venetian. There's also the Portofino at Universal. Italy is certainly in vogue. I'm surprised someone didn't go unique and employ a Greek/Santorini theme. Maybe they figured white would be too hard to keep clean. Although, the real Santorini still looks pretty good.

[Disney Deadhead]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRob2k1
[B]

>Wow, if you think this is all fluff, you must hate DCA >with a passion!!

On the contrary, I enjoyed DCA very much.

>For the record, Jumpin Jellyfish was designed for TDS >and then thrown into DCA at the last minute. It looks >the other way because DCA opened first!!

It's the same ride; vilified at DCA, worshipped at TDS.

> As for the kiddie rides (teacups, coaster, JJ), have you >seen the enviornment they are in!!! The built a huge >"underwater" environment that from what I've heard >is extremely realistic. All these rides are indoors, >minus the coaster. But see I dont mind these types of >rides when they are themed extremely well, and you >cant argue that even the smallest rides are heavily >themed!! By the way the carosuel is in the Arabian >Coast and it is unique to TDS. It's a double-decker, >with individual themed charatcers.

I don't mind those rides when they aren't themed at all, they're fun. What I find curious is that these very same rides are slammed at DCA, yet loved at TDS. The Orange Stinger is the only Wave Swinger inside a structure that I've ever seen. The Himalaya (Music Express, Tsunami elsewhere) at TDS is outside. At least the one at Santa Cruz has neat lights.

>As for the transportation cars/trolleys/canal boats, >etc... These are great for 2 reasons. One - it >enhances the theme and experience. Two it adds >different types of rides for all people. Think of Main >Street - it wouldnt be the same withtout the period >cars. These types of gentle rides really appeal to >people and I like them too.

I love them too, but they aren't anything new or exciting. Reading this board you'd think everything at TDS is a groundbreaking revelation. It's just more standard park stuff. The money went into the facades, not into the ride mechanisms or any sort of show inside a ride in most cases. A themed teacups isn't any better than an unthemed Teacups.

>TDS has everything for the family. Teens/Adults have >the amazing e-tickets. There are 5 of them by the way(Journey, Stormrider, 20,000, Sinbad, and Indy).

Doesn't this site often complain about "recycled WDW attractions" at DCA? TDS has a recycled DL ride and a recycled DCA ride. The E-tickets do look amazing. Too bad everything else is an A-ticket.

> Kids have the Mermid Lagoon and the fortress. The >elderly can ride the transportation (my Grandma's >favorite part of Disneyland is riding in the double->decker bus!) and then there is the entertainment, >which is for the whole family.

One would think they could have found a way to put in a thrilling new water ride or coaster. A park without a coaster??? There aren't any D, C, or B ticket rides at TDS. There are a lot of pretty buildings, though.

>Besides are "overblown" reactions come from seeing >what the Japanese got in their second gate and then >looking across the plaza and seeing the golden gate >bridge. You see my point??

Not really. DCA has two E-tickets, TDS has 2 original ones, a simulator, and a recycled DL ride. TDS has carny rides, DCA has carny rides. TDS has more fluff than rides, DCA has more fluff than rides. TDS is obviously far better themed, far more elaborate, and far more expensive than DCA, but under it all it's not all that different. I can only look at a building for so long before I want to experience something.

>I cant wait until spring vacation. TDS/TDL...watch out!

I would enjoy a visit to TDS, but I'm certainly not going to go thousands of miles and spend thousands of dollars just to see it. After all, many of the same rides can be done at DL or DCA (or any other park, for that matter) and I can see the much of the same (original) theming on the Las Vegas Strip 20 minutes from my house.

[wtg2000]

Deadhead,

I read through your post, and then realized you haven't been to the park. From your strong comments I certainly got the impression that you had. I haven't been so I can't make specific praises or criticisms. It's funny how the most passionate people seem to be the ones who haven't been to a park, or who haven't seen a movie.

>TDS has a recycled DL ride and a recycled DCA ride. The E-tickets do look amazing. Too bad everything else is an A-ticket.

The Indy ride at DL (which I have been on) is so great that it would have been a shame not to re-use that technology in Japan. They re-used it in Florida, however the results are not as favourable. I hope in Japan they are. Is the ride an exact replica of DL Indy? I think the DCA complaint was more that they were recycling movies frame for frame, one that was ten years old. Besides, it doesn't make sense to come with a new technology and then not use it more than once, especially on different continents.

I'm not sure what the recycled DCA ride is. I don't know how you can consider anything at TDS a recycle of DCA since I believe they were planned around the same time.

I'm hoping to be able to speak authoritatively very soon!

[Mr D]

I'm beginning to think that Deadhead is a corporate disney employee trying to squash the highlights of TDS and reinstate the weakaning "Disney Dogma" that eisner tried to pass off on us, won't work buddy, the cats outta da bag man and the truth is out there, sure slam the better park and make a name for yourself but its extremely plain to see in any aspect weather the rides are clones or representations of classic artwork its still the overall effect, I love it in my mind my heart and my soul right off, its just too much altogether done right and totally opposite of DCA. Finis

[JRob2k1]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Disney Deadhead
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by JRob2k1
[B]It's the same ride; vilified at DCA, worshipped at TDS.[QUOTE]

It doesnt fit into DCA-theme wise. The ride WAS designed for TDS!

[QUOTE]I love them too, but they aren't anything new or exciting. Reading this board you'd think everything at TDS is a groundbreaking revelation. It's just more standard park stuff. The money went into the facades, not into the ride mechanisms or any sort of show inside a ride in most cases. A themed teacups isn't any better than an unthemed Teacups.[QUOTE]

Have you seen any of the pictures on MP or LP?? The show inside??? They are all elaborately themed and have incredible shows!! The themed "facades" make the attractions ten times better. I wish that some, check that, ANY of the DCA "facades" looked that good.

As for a show inside the ride. Thosew "kiddie" rides wer built inside a show building that looks amazingly like your underwater. As for the teacup analogy...Theming makes a ride so much more special and memorable then your local grocery store carnival.

[QUOTE]Doesn't this site often complain about "recycled WDW attractions" at DCA? TDS has a recycled DL ride and a recycled DCA ride. The E-tickets do look amazing. Too bad everything else is an A-ticket.[QUOTE]

Like I keep saying, DCA recycled TDS's Jumpin Jellyfish, but you dont seem to care.
As for the Indy ride, they took the same technology and then uped the experience by adding new effects and a whole new story. So to me, its a brand new attraction. The DCA clones are the exact same shows I saw at WDW last summer.

[QUOTE]There are a lot of pretty buildings, though.[QUOTE]

Something DCA lacks for the most part!

[QUOTE]Not really. DCA has two E-tickets, TDS has 2 original ones, a simulator, and a recycled DL ride. TDS has carny rides, DCA has carny rides. TDS has more fluff than rides, DCA has more fluff than rides. TDS is obviously far better themed, far more elaborate, and far more expensive than DCA, but under it all it's not all that different. I can only look at a building for so long before I want to experience something.[QUOTE]

If you cant enjoy your soundings and experience the beauty that is most Disney parks, I would suggest another company. Six Flags, you dont have to look at stuff and then you can experince a lot of really cheep or unthemed rides.

TDS is going to be an amazing park. The pictures say it all, and no one can stop that!!

-JRob

[Kuzcotopia]

Originally posted by Disney Deadhead
How the heck do you quote in this forum?

I'll rough it until I figure it out.



There is a reply with quote option on the bottom of each post. I just learned that myself, we'll see how it works!




As far as Stormrider goes, it's a simulator. It appears to be a very good one as well, and I have no doubt whatsoever that I would enjoy it. But I've been on a lot of simulators, and have come to this conclusion: simulators are simulators. I prefer rides.


Yes, but you have to count it! You said there were only 2 E tickets! There are 5! It is a simulator, but the best one yet built. Contrast that with the cardboard "non-simulator" Soarin', which is a lame rip-off of Back to the Future, but without a storyline. I can say I prefer or don't prefer anything, but you were saying that Tokyo Disney Sea wasn't that great, and yet you were attacking a VERY innovative ride because you have an anti-simulator preference. Just because you don't like simulators doesn't mean they aren't E-ticket attractions (even though you didn't list it, and you said the park only had 2 E-tickets). It IS an E-ticket. It is a very elaborate, innovative E-ticket.





As to the stage show, I dislike all stage shows. I prefer rides.

It sounds like you have made up your mind not to like this park. Your preference.




Aquatopia looks to be a real disappointment. They spend tons of money on technology and the bumper boats don't even bump? What do you do? Flop around on a sheet of water for 3 minutes?

Only someone wanting to find fault can NOT ride a ride, not even see a ride, but read a description on a newsgroup and call it a dissapointment.

I haven't even SEEN it in person, but you read MY description and decide it sucks? I give up.





What does that big Columbia ship do? The big ship at Treasure Island moves, fights, and sinks. I love exploding volcanos, I've always loved the one at the Mirage, so I would expect to like the one at TDS.

You seem to like Vegas. I've been there many times.

I am sure in your mind that somehow the Mirage invented the idea of a Volcano, and the Treasure Island invented the idea of a Pirate show.





I can tell you've never seen the Venetian. It is a spectacular recreation of Venice, and the paintings, much like the ones at the Mira Costa, have nothing to do with the Sistine Chapel. The Sistine Chapel is in Rome. The Venetian has a boring gondola ride, and now TDS has a boring gondola ride. The exterior of the Mira Costa is almost an exact replica of the Bellagio, only without the spectacular fountains.

Man, you must think that Vegas invented everything!

The Bellagio, beautiful as it is, is itself a rip-off of the Villa d'Este, which was built in the year 1568 by the Italian Architect Pellegrino Pellegrini. (I am not an encyclopedia. I found this on the web!)

The Villa d'Este is in the Italian town of Bellagio (imagine that!) and their web-site is found here:

http://www.villadeste.com

Check out the pictures. It looks exactly like the Bellagio, but with MUCH better fountains, and no cheezy slot-machines. (Thanks for making me look that up, I MUST stay there now!)

So unless Steve Wynn also owns the copyright on 16th Century Italian architecture, I wouldn't go calling Disney on ripping off Vegas.

Oh, and while we're at it, Sleeping Beauty's castle and Cinderella's too are based on King Ludwig II's castle in Bavaria. But you probably thought that Disney ripped it off from the Excalibur hotel in Vegas.

I have come to the conclusion that I can't do anything else to convince you that TDS is cool. In your mind it can't compete with Vegas, oh well.

You said that it only had 2 E-tickets. I explained that it had at least 4 or 5. You complained that the rest were A or B tickets, when that is not true at all. You dismissed Magic Lamp (a D), The Carrousel (C), Aquatopia (D), Several C's and D's in Mermaid Lagoon and the Exploration Fortress....

So yes, Disney Deadhead, if you choose to discount or not mention all but 3 of the rides, yes, THEN the park doesn't sound very good at all!

I think your message was a troll to get the Disney fans whipped into a frenzy. I played along for awhile, but I really think you're either made your mind up already or you're egging me on.

(By the way, I think the Japanese based Tokyo Tower on that big tower in front of the Hotel Paris in Vegas!)

-Kuzcotopa

[TokyoInsider]

To be fair, I must say that DisneyDeadhead does have a couple of points, but what he does not mention is that there is a conscious effort to improve the things that 'aren't quite working' on a daily basis.

In my polls of the people who have visited Tokyo DisneySea, there are a couple of attractions and areas where they feel the park can be improved. Perhaps the best example of this is the Aquatopia attraction.

The novelty of this attraction is that you don't know where you are going to go- you spin around, stop and start, and wander around a large outdoor playground of water jets, whirlpools and sprays. The problem with this attraction as it stands today is that 'what you see is what you get'. The ride has been programmed to avoid getting you wet- the jets of water will cease as you get into range, and you always stop short of the water fall or water spray.

Now, I do not mean to put down the Imagineering team, because I am aware of how much time and effort they spent on execution for this attraction, but even the most dedicated of Disney fans must admit that without modification, this attraction is a downer.

HOWEVER, as I hear it, they are modifying the programming to make the guests wet as I type this sentence, and those changes should be incorporated before opening day.

There are many areas of Tokyo DisneySea that aren't perfect, but the template is firmly in place, and the spirit for improving things is still clearly alive. Perhaps this is the biggest difference- The improvements necessary are not costly, (and even better yet) ARE BEING MADE!

On a recent cast preview, I saw not once, not twice, but 3 occasions of off-duty cast members taking out their cellular phones and calling in some problem that needs to be fixed, or notifying their office of something that could be improved!

There is tremendous pride over here, and it really shows- from the Imagineering team still working daily to improve the guest experience, to the OLC cast members who are really carrying the torch forward.

[wtg2000]

Someone mentioned a lack of water rides and the fact that the Aquatopia doesn't get you wet. No Grizzly Peak or Kali River style rides, for example. Is it correct to assume that the Japanese don't go giddy at the prospect of getting soaked like Americans do? Perhaps it is more related to the climate?

Also, I found the comment that a themed teacup is the same as an unthemed teacup interesting. Isn't the very fact that it's a teacup mean that is has a theme?

:)

[Mr D]

I just wonder for the record how often and how much CM's called their leads or heads of departments to make changes or improvements at DCA during its soft opening, and how much was actually implemented, hmmmmmm......point to ponder I suppose is that there was a lot, but how much was done after that, the follow up. I know there was a lot of probs with MM, so the sequence of braking was changed and basically de-tuned. I am glad Disney doe's not try to induce brain hemorrages or whiplash such as the Six Flags rides, but then again Indy had definately its shares of problems with tossing and turning excessively, that I would blame on the hydraulic actuator design and THAT I know as in my day job I work with that every day on concrete mixers and dampening hydraulics takes pressurized accumulators that are charge with nitrogen often over 3500 psi, that takes up space and weight, pneumatics are good but require a clean and dry air supply, 3 phase power is the best with a combination of electro-pneumatic and hydralics will balance out, the Indy at TDS was changed after the Indy of DL shows up its problems over its years, so even if the ride is basically the same the vehicles actions and movements are as different as comparing a 20 year old truck suspension to a modern airride soft suspension. As far as getting wet or not getting wet it again depends on the time of year in Japan, in the winter it gets very cold does it not? Personally I can only travel in the winter months and am not looking forward to drenching myself when its 60 degrees or less, my two cents and a dollar to boot.:)

[Disney Deadhead]

Originally posted by Mr D
I'm beginning to think that Deadhead is a corporate disney employee trying to squash the highlights of TDS and reinstate the weakaning "Disney Dogma" that eisner tried to pass off on us, won't work buddy, the cats outta da bag man and the truth is out there, sure slam the better park and make a name for yourself but its extremely plain to see in any aspect weather the rides are clones or representations of classic artwork its still the overall effect, I love it in my mind my heart and my soul right off, its just too much altogether done right and totally opposite of DCA. Finis

You love it even though you've never been there?

That reminds me of those who hated a park before ever visiting it. I visited DCA and had a good time despite it's faults. If I ever visit TDS, I am sure I will also enjoy that park despite it's faults. Both offer things that I enjoy.

It's unfortunate that you apparently believe you can't have fun at DCA, and can only have fun at TDS, which will be 10,000 times more expensive to visit.

Enjoy your trip.

BTW, these are theme parks we're discussing, not the Bible. You people take it so seriously it's scary.

[Disney Deadhead]

Originally posted by wtg2000
Deadhead,

I read through your post, and then realized you haven't been to the park. From your strong comments I certainly got the impression that you had. I haven't been so I can't make specific praises or criticisms. It's funny how the most passionate people seem to be the ones who haven't been to a park, or who haven't seen a movie.

Sort of like the folks who were slamming DCA before it opened?

>TDS has a recycled DL ride and a recycled DCA ride. The E-tickets do look amazing. Too bad everything else is an A-ticket.

The Indy ride at DL (which I have been on) is so great that it would have been a shame not to re-use that technology in Japan. They re-used it in Florida, however the results are not as favourable. I hope in Japan they are. Is the ride an exact replica of DL Indy? I think the DCA complaint was more that they were recycling movies frame for frame, one that was ten years old. Besides, it doesn't make sense to come with a new technology and then not use it more than once, especially on different continents.

I love Indy at DL, and if enhanced in Japan, I'm sure I'd love it there too. But the oft repeated opinion that recycled rides from other parks are automatically bad is fallacious. Who cares if it's recycled if it's an attraction you enjoy?

>I'm not sure what the recycled DCA ride is. I don't know how you can consider anything at TDS a recycle of DCA since I believe they were planned around the same time.

I rode Jumin' Jelly fish at DCA months ago. It's now at TDS. Does it matter where it was supposed to go first?

>I'm hoping to be able to speak authoritatively very soon!

Oh, so you haven't been there either.

Interesting.

[Disney Deadhead]

Originally posted by JRob2k1
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Disney Deadhead
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by JRob2k1
[B]It's the same ride; vilified at DCA, worshipped at TDS.[QUOTE]


[QUOTE]I love them too, but they aren't anything new or exciting. Reading this board you'd think everything at TDS is a groundbreaking revelation. It's just more standard park stuff. The money went into the facades, not into the ride mechanisms or any sort of show inside a ride in most cases. A themed teacups isn't any better than an unthemed Teacups.[QUOTE]

Have you seen any of the pictures on MP or LP?? The show inside??? They are all elaborately themed and have incredible shows!! The themed "facades" make the attractions ten times better. I wish that some, check that, ANY of the DCA "facades" looked that good.

The facades do not make an unimaginative carnival ride 10 times better. Do you feel that way about the Orange Stinger, the only enclosed Wave Swinger in the world?

[QUOTE]As for a show inside the ride. Those "kiddie" rides wer built inside a show building that looks amazingly like your underwater. As for the teacup analogy...Theming makes a ride so much more special and memorable then your local grocery store carnival.

Not really. You still just spin around.

[QUOTE]Doesn't this site often complain about "recycled WDW attractions" at DCA? TDS has a recycled DL ride and a recycled DCA ride. The E-tickets do look amazing. Too bad everything else is an A-ticket.[QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Like I keep saying, DCA recycled TDS's Jumpin Jellyfish, but you dont seem to care.

I rode the one at DCA months ago. That's where it appeared first. Ridng it at TDS wouldn't be new to me.

[QUOTE]As for the Indy ride, they took the same technology and then uped the experience by adding new effects and a whole new story. So to me, its a brand new attraction. The DCA clones are the exact same shows I saw at WDW last summer.

I like Indy, no problem there. In fact if the attraction is good, I have no problem putting it anywhere. I enjoyed Bug at DCA very much.

[QUOTE]There are a lot of pretty buildings, though.[QUOTE]

Something DCA lacks for the most part!

I thought DCA was very nice looking.

[QUOTE]Not really. DCA has two E-tickets, TDS has 2 original ones, a simulator, and a recycled DL ride. TDS has carny rides, DCA has carny rides. TDS has more fluff than rides, DCA has more fluff than rides. TDS is obviously far better themed, far more elaborate, and far more expensive than DCA, but under it all it's not all that different. I can only look at a building for so long before I want to experience something.[QUOTE]

[QUOTE]If you cant enjoy your soundings and experience the beauty that is most Disney parks, I would suggest another company. Six Flags, you dont have to look at stuff and then you can experince a lot of really cheep or unthemed rides.

I don't enjoy Six Flags, too many coasters I'd puke on. I like Disney parks because the rides are different than what you normally find in other parks. What we see happening now is that they are building a few E-tickets for each park, then plopping in carny rides, either nicely themed or massively themed. I don't see much difference.

[QUOTE]TDS is going to be an amazing park. The pictures say it all, and no one can stop that!!

I agree. But it isn't perfect, nor is it the holy grail.

-JRob

[wtg2000]

>Oh, so you haven't been there either.

>Interesting.


Not really that interesting. Nowhere in my posts did I make any comments about TDS or DCA. I spoke only in general terms about recycling rides.

[TokyoInsider]

Disney Deadhead-

The Indy attraction at Tokyo DisneySea is both similar and unique to the Disneyland version. The main stage area has a number of neat new effects like a huge swirling vortex extending from ceiling to floor, and a couple of new surprises, too.

But to me, perhaps the biggest difference is that the Tokyo version is a much smoother ride than the Anaheim version- perhaps this is a concession to allow a larger range of guests on board. For example- when you first approach the 'gates of doom', you swerve to the left and begin jostling up stairs (in Disneyland). But here- you just go up the slope smoothly.

I personally love getting the stuffing tossed out of me, and thus thoroughly enjoy the Disneyland version, but the Tokyo DisneySea version is much more refined in terms of special effects, and a good deal of people are enjoying it quite a bit. Think of it as Indy 2.0.

[wtg2000]

>I rode the one at DCA months ago. That's where it appeared first. Ridng it at TDS wouldn't be new to me.

That is an interesting perspective. For example, I've ridden all four Big Thunders and felt the experience was very different each time. Of course, it may not be fair to compare a coaster with a spinner.

Even Timekeeper was different for example in Paris than in Florida, with extra scenes and a different soundtrack. The queue area in Tokyo for Timekeeper was better, as it was for Splash Mtn. This helped make it a different experience.

[Mr D]

There are some new numbers coming out that Disney is losing the money and bookings to DL and WDW this next fall and winter and from what I see on the boards the tide is turning in our "recession" that many are opting out of visiting America Disney in favor of "the right stuff" Walt would be happy about this turnaround and I am very certain other people are not. Just in the last week TDS was barely mentioned, now its one of the most talked about topics! DCA had a similar fallowing but during its construction many faults were found from improper placement of rides to imbalances of motor gear that induced severe load vibrations, its not a wind factor but plain cheapness of design and equipment, the contractors that built DCA had to practically sue Disney just to get paid! And why did DCA really get such a lame theme? Because Eisner willed it so, is there anything more degrading than having to pay homage to a persons self image being forced upon us than what Eisner has done? It is so apparent his whole plan is to milk every nickel dime and dollar from Disney and us and then leave an effigy similar to what my neighbors dog leaves in my yard. And living in Alaska with a six month winter, you can imagine what I see when the snow melts in spring. Please somebody come in and buy out the Disney company, I don't care if its Amway or Taco Bell, anybody else could hopefully run this corporation better than its current regime. The PR image now will take years to recoup and regain a faithful following due to Eisners ineptness. DCA should be leveled and sold to somebody in south america or Libya for thats all its worth, the pro-DCA crowd cannot understand quality as quite frankly I do not think they have ever seen it or even appreciate it. Disney has in the past outdone the competition, they have broken the mold, they have lost and they have won but only because they tried Eisner failed, his visions are flawed ( but then he is a pisces and they are of the house of dreams, Walt was a sagittarian like moi) and not visionary, it takes something special to keep Disney alive, it takes charisma and adventure and of course economics are different from Walts day 40 years ago but people have not changed, if anything having "specialized" theming unique and only from the imagineers at Disney is what is needed, and before I forget, Thank You, All of you that were involved from the plumbers to electricians from the painters to planners that made up the combined team that built up TDS, You did your job as the best of the best, though I have over 25 years experiance in plant designe, marine engineering, powerplants, heavy equipment I still feel I do not meet the standards the Disney needs, but who knows. Good luck TDS and knock their socks off!

[MMFan]

Disney Deadhead wrote: The Imagineers have run out of ideas.
With the crowning example of this being DCA.


Beautiful facades are great, but I prefer that what's under or inside the facade be something special.
That's what makes DCA even more pathetic than the other Disney parks. Worst of all, some of the stuff in PP is just plain ugly. Not helping matters is that a lot of the things under or inside many of DCA's facades, beautiful or not, aren't that exceptional. And I'm not even necessarily referring to the tortilla or bread tours.

Another criterion is whether a theme or amusement park is fun or not. Most visitors will find at least a little that's fun in almost all of the parks in America. Sort of comparable to the idea that a person can get an education at any college in the USA, and therefore it's less important whether you end up at Stanford or the junior college down the street. In fact, some could argue that a prestige university is no better than a junior college, at least in a few areas, and in trying to deal with their differences, advantages and flaws, a person is splitting hairs or being too picky.

And sure, there's similarities between DCA and TDS, but there's also similarities between Stanford (or Berkeley, or UCLA) and the junior college down the street.

[merlinjones]

DisneySea should be adapted as the third gate in Anaheim (really, the second worthy gate). Even if it were half of the total Tokyo DisneySea area at opening (and was executed with the same level of detail and quality), this park would become a major draw.

It would be shame to waste the remaining Anaheim parcel on anything less than a DisneySea quality park if they are truly comitted to the Resort concept. An impressive draw is needed to make it work.

Meanwhile, Disneyland is fully restored and has some new attractions, upgrades and replacements added (fixing Tomorrowland at least).

DisneySea would then allow DCA to be folded into Downtown Disney (with the few popular rides and shows becoming single-ticket attractions or freebies for Resort Hotel guests). Paradise Pier, with the addition of niteclubs, becomes Disneyland Resort's Pleasure Island (with a Pinocchio theming overlay).

In this scenario, everyone wins and DCA is utilized to much better advantage for shopping, dining and partying pleasure. Then people will find a revitalized Disneyland and breathtaking companion DisneySea a California must-see.

[JRob2k1]

Disney Deadhead-

I dont know why you are trying to ruin TDS for me. Its not going to work anyways. TDS is what I expected from DCA. Sure I liked DCA, but I feel that it should have been a lot more better. When I look at pics of TDS, it is everything I expected in a new park and so much more.

Im a DL AP, so usually my big summer trip is to WDW. Guess what, next year instead od WDW, its TDL Resort!! I dont if this will suprise you, but the trip is roughly the same price. So the only new difference is we're flying in a new direction.

DisneySea is going to be amazing, and there is nothing anyone can do to make it sound worse!!

"I'm so excited, and I just cant hide it..." :D

-JRob