Unused remainders of passes on craigslist..?

[twindaddy]

:eek:

Off with your head!

:p

I didnt even mention I make sure to tear the tags off ALL my mattresses, and whenver I visit someones house, I tear those off also...

[Toocherie]

whenver I visit someones house, I tear those off also...

ok--you're not coming to my house!

[Angie2009]

shoot--I legitimately upgraded something at WDW and I had trouble remember when and where and what I had done on what day! I really had to stop and think about it!



By the same token, does that mean that shoplifting shouldn't be a crime? After all, apparently markets and department stores apparently have a system they can't enforce so why should the police get involved?

We obviously have a difference of opinion--in my mind getting discounted park tickets in a non-authorized way (which ebay and craigslist sales are) is STEALING. You're getting more than you paid for. Just as if you stole a pack of cigarettes or a sweater.

There is a big difference between theft and the purchase of a ticket on ebay. Having just been totally ripped off via a contract violation, I'd love it if the police would help me get my money back. But it is just a civil matter and they will tell me to hire a lawyer. Yes, someone took more of my money than they would have received if they had been honest and lived by the contract. I definitely got less than I paid for. But it wasn't theft, they didn't reach into my wallet to take the money. The government has enough to do without trying to figure out how the contract I was in was violated - and that's what they'd tell me.

Shoplifting is blatant, obvious, easy to prosecute theft.

Stealing of a ticket is blatant theft. Sneaking into the park is trespassing if nothing else.

Violating the terms of the admission contract should just be a contract violation, a civil matter.

Think about it this way - Disney promised to provide so many days in the park for a person and if those days aren't used, the extra price isn't refunded. The purchaser didn't get what they paid for if they don't use the days. If I buy an insurance policy and terminate it mid-year because I don't need it - I sold the car or whatever - I get a refund for the time not used. If I pay a retainer to an attorney and don't need his services I get a refund. If I buy a gift at the store and the person can't use it they can return it. But if you buy a 5 day ticket and can only end up using 3 days you are supposed to just suck it up, and Disney's supposed to rake in the money, despite Disney never delivering those services to anyone. Even if I make an appointment at the doctor and cancel too late for her to reschedule someone else in, I am only charge $25 or so - not the full value of the services.

If someone shoplifts, they take the goods out of the store that were paid for by the retailer. If someone uses the end of someone else's 3 day ticket, Disney didn't provide anything more than they promised - 3 days at the park.

If you buy software or music and give it to a friend and delete it off of your own system, to me that is the same thing as selling the end of a parkhopper. If you buy it, give it to a friend and continue to use it, that's theft.

Like I said before, I still wouldn't buy them - I just don't see it as being necessarily criminal.

[adriennek]

Think about it this way - Disney promised to provide so many days in the park for a person and if those days aren't used, the extra price isn't refunded. The purchaser didn't get what they paid for if they don't use the days. If I buy an insurance policy and terminate it mid-year because I don't need it - I sold the car or whatever - I get a refund for the time not used. If I pay a retainer to an attorney and don't need his services I get a refund. If I buy a gift at the store and the person can't use it they can return it. But if you buy a 5 day ticket and can only end up using 3 days you are supposed to just suck it up, and Disney's supposed to rake in the money, despite Disney never delivering those services to anyone. Even if I make an appointment at the doctor and cancel too late for her to reschedule someone else in, I am only charge $25 or so - not the full value of the services.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

The contract you made with the insurance policy or the attorney has an accommodation for a refund. People buy the park hoppers accept the terms of the contract when they by the hoppers. If they don't like the terms, they don't have to buy the ticket or they can buy a shorter-term ticket. They can also buy a shorter term ticket and then extend the ticket if they decide to, which is an alternative to buying more than they need and then having unused days.

And not every store exchanges gifts. There are products that are not exchange or refundable, especially if they're used.

Adrienne

[Angie2009]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

The contract you made with the insurance policy or the attorney has an accommodation for a refund. People buy the park hoppers accept the terms of the contract when they by the hoppers. If they don't like the terms, they don't have to buy the ticket or they can buy a shorter-term ticket. They can also buy a shorter term ticket and then extend the ticket if they decide to, which is an alternative to buying more than they need and then having unused days.

And not every store exchanges gifts. There are products that are not exchange or refundable, especially if they're used.

Adrienne

Actually, insurance companies and attorneys (and car deposits) are legally required to give you a refund, it's not the contract that defines it. There is a general concept in law that if services aren't provided, the fees aren't earned. I don't think it is apples and oranges.

[Mermaid]

Yes, it seems that a lot of people think that theft of "services" is a lot less serious than theft of "stuff." At the end of the day, both cost me more as a consumer when the company adjusts their prices to account for the loss.



Derail ahead:

I would agree with this. My mom owns a dancewear store. She is known all over the state, yes state, as the place to get fitted for pointe shoes. Pointe shoes have to fit exactly or you can really hurt yourself or waste a lot of money breaking ill fitting shoes. She has dance schools come annually from Blythe, Tucson, Flagstaff, Prescott as well as here in the Phoenix area. Although there are many dancewear stores in Phoenix, there are really only two who are good pointe shoe fitters. It takes about 30 minutes or so to get a good fit, especially on younger girls who are unsure of how things should feel.

About once a month she gets someone in who she fits (and these people are rarely easy fits- so usually more in the 45 minute range). She carries probably 20+ brands, so if nothing is working quite right, this can be a while. Then the person pays really close attention to the brand, style, and size also they can order them off the internet. My mom has a sign up right at the fitting site that states that there is a $25 fee if you don't buy the shoes. People see it all the time and say "Wow, people really do that?" The internet people always go nuts and half the time storm out of the store refusing to pay it. Yes, the stuff is 25% cheaper on the net, but hello? There is no person or stock to fit you!! She even had someone say that once, "Well, it is cheaper, but we need to know what kind to get." She has no real issue with older girls ordering the shoes later once their style/ size is established- but man she gets peeved when people waste her time and use her inventory.

[quackinup]

She should take a $25 "deposit" before the fitting that would be applied to the purchase when done.

[AVP]

She should take a $25 "deposit" before the fitting that would be applied to the purchase when done.That's exactly what the running store here in town does. You pay $25 for a fitting consultation, which includes a pressure test, a treadmill test, etc. Then you receive a $25 gift card, which can be used towards any purchase.

AVP

[twindaddy]

Derail ahead:

I would agree with this. My mom owns a dancewear store. She is known all over the state, yes state, as the place to get fitted for pointe shoes. Pointe shoes have to fit exactly or you can really hurt yourself or waste a lot of money breaking ill fitting shoes. She has dance schools come annually from Blythe, Tucson, Flagstaff, Prescott as well as here in the Phoenix area. Although there are many dancewear stores in Phoenix, there are really only two who are good pointe shoe fitters. It takes about 30 minutes or so to get a good fit, especially on younger girls who are unsure of how things should feel.

About once a month she gets someone in who she fits (and these people are rarely easy fits- so usually more in the 45 minute range). She carries probably 20+ brands, so if nothing is working quite right, this can be a while. Then the person pays really close attention to the brand, style, and size also they can order them off the internet. My mom has a sign up right at the fitting site that states that there is a $25 fee if you don't buy the shoes. People see it all the time and say "Wow, people really do that?" The internet people always go nuts and half the time storm out of the store refusing to pay it. Yes, the stuff is 25% cheaper on the net, but hello? There is no person or stock to fit you!! She even had someone say that once, "Well, it is cheaper, but we need to know what kind to get." She has no real issue with older girls ordering the shoes later once their style/ size is established- but man she gets peeved when people waste her time and use her inventory.


To play devils advocate, if I pay the $25 to get my twins fitted, I can probably save more than that buying online.

However, if I went into her store and the service was ultra friendly and they had what I needed in stock, and the price wasnt obscenely more, I would probably buy in store just to have it then and reward a small business. But in the future, I would probably buy online.

[Mermaid]

She should take a $25 "deposit" before the fitting that would be applied to the purchase when done.

She has thought about that, but she doesn't want to offend the 98% of people who are honest. If the people come back, they can get the $25 off the cost of the shoes. It is enough a problem to be an issue, but luckily most people are decent enough to buy the shoes. If it happens more and more, I could see her doing that.

Twindaddy- her pointe shoes run from $60-$80 usually, so if you save about 25%-30% online- you are still paying more overall and that is if shipping is free. Pointe shoes are sort of like glasses, when you first start wearing them, you need a new size/ style every 2-3 pairs. Usually girls start pointe between 10-12 years old and that first pair will last 6 months or more, so now their foot is bigger and stronger. As they dance more, their muscles develop and they need stronger and/or differently shaped shoes. After the foot stops growing and the girl is fairly set in what she likes and works for her, usually around 14-15 years old, then you know exactly what kind to get and are buying them every month or two (for serious ballet dancers). She has no issue with them now buying online, she is no longer fitting them and she realizes, yes, it is cheaper. As a small brick and mortar shop, she can not really compete, price wise, with large online warehouses and stay in business. She does develop relationships with these girls over the years and goes to a lot of their shows and performances. So, some of them continue to shop at her store as a way to keep the business local and alive. If she and the other store went under (who has the same policy), there would be no real way for these girls to get fitted.

ETA- I should add if it is something her fault like she doesn't have the size, she obviously doesn't charge the fee. It doesn't happen often- but it can happen.

[twindaddy]

I have no problem paying more to get the custom fitting, friendly service, and immediate gratification. It just has to be a reasonable amount more, KWIM?

I have had similar debates with my mom over shopping at our local Walmart Supercenter. I told her how our local specialty grocer (Nugget, kinda like Trader Joes) is a solid twice the price, I cant justify that to my family. Its funny, she was SO anti Walmart until she went there with me. Our local supercenter is shockingly clean and well stocked, and the stuff is like half the price of Safeway. She still hates going there, but sends me there with money to buy her stuff.

[cstephens]

Think about it this way - Disney promised to provide so many days in the park for a person and if those days aren't used, the extra price isn't refunded. The purchaser didn't get what they paid for if they don't use the days.

I have a premium annual pass, which entitles me to entrance every day that Disneyland is open. If I don't go for a week, I don't get a refund for those days, and I am also not entitled to lend my AP to someone else to use on the days that I don't go.

I don't see why a multi-day ticket is any different as far as it not being refundable for days not used or not being transferable.

[adriennek]

I don't see why a multi-day ticket is any different as far as it not being refundable for days not used or not being transferable.

I'm trying to figure out how hard it is to plan in advance how many days worth of park-hopper a person needs for a trip. :confused: When I went to WDW, I knew we had 8-day park hoppers so we planned... 8 days to visit parks.

Adrienne

[twindaddy]

To be honest, I think some people around these parts just dont want to fess up and say it: I know its wrong but I do it anyways

Kinda like me sneaking a bottle of water into the movies, or downloading music off youtube, or not leaving the seat down after I pee.

You buy a parkhopper / entry ticket knowing the rules. If you dont want to accept them, thats fine, dont go. But saying the rules are unfair so its OK to cheat is silly. If you cheat, just call it for what it is.

[dancermom]

I think the bottom line is...it says right on the ticket, correct me if I'm wrong, that it is non-transferrable, right? when we went in 2006, we had to show ID and sign our tickets..we didn't have to do that this time though. Its not Disney's fault if you buy a 6 day pass and only use 4...the option is there to buy a 4 day pass too. They offer several different tickets for different amount of days. They can't control what people do on their vacation, it seems silly to offer a refund for every person who just decided after buying a 6 day pass, that they were only going to use it for 4...thats the choice you make, not Disney.
IMO, its like going to a restaurant and buying a large sized meal, but only eating half and then asking for a refund for the other half because you didn't eat it. I'm not sure I'd say selling unused days is stealing...but I would think there would be a market for people to scam, because is there anyway to really tell if there are unused days before you actually get to the park?

[CMHusband]

Scalping tickets is illegal and the police could get involved with that.

I recently heard a story about a woman who purchased tickets on Ebay who was selling parkhoppers with one day on them. She actually paid more for them than a 1-day ticket because she wants to upgrade them to APs and the value of the PHs is more than she paid. Her rationale is that she's saving money because the value will be worth it when she upgrades. And the seller had used this information as a marketing tool when selling the tickets on Ebay. So the seller said "Hey, they've got lots of value so you can upgrade them."

But. He had good feedback, so his information must've been legit.

Adrienne

All True, and Disney confiscates tickets from people doing this everyday...don't get caught or the big savings will turn into a big heartbreak... I'm an honest guy so I just don't get this kind of deal. It is basically stealing any way you cut it, "legal" or not legal.

[candles71]

To be honest, I think some people around these parts just dont want to fess up and say it: I know its wrong but I do it anyways

Kinda like me sneaking a bottle of water into the movies, or downloading music off youtube, or not leaving the seat down after I pee.

You buy a parkhopper / entry ticket knowing the rules. If you dont want to accept them, thats fine, dont go. But saying the rules are unfair so its OK to cheat is silly. If you cheat, just call it for what it is.

Psst, TD, iirc you are in the same area as me and you don't have to sneak that bottle of water in, the theatres all let you bring in bottled water, I believe it's an ADA compliance thing.

I would also agree with your assessment.;)

[Bolivar]

To be honest, I think some people around these parts just dont want to fess up and say it: I know its wrong but I do it anyways


Has even one person suggested that they do it or that it is OK to do?

I recall the conversation as:

OP: What's the deal with the tickets on craigslist is that legit?

Replies: Many of those are scams and those that aren't are against the rules and Disney will confiscated them if you are caught. Besides it is illegal.

A couple people: Illegal, really? I thought it was just unethical and against the contract. In other words wrong, but not a crime.

Replies: How dare you say it is OK to do; you are a horrible, horrible person.

[twindaddy]

Has even one person suggested that they do it or that it is OK to do?

I recall the conversation as:

OP: What's the deal with the tickets on craigslist is that legit?

Replies: Many of those are scams and those that aren't are against the rules and Disney will confiscated them if you are caught. Besides it is illegal.

A couple people: Illegal, really? I thought it was just unethical and against the contract. In other words wrong, but not a crime.

Replies: How dare you say it is OK to do; you are a horrible, horrible person.

I dont want to call anyone out, but it was pretty obvious if you read between the lines. Maybe wrong on my part, but maybe not.

[Bolivar]

No I guess I shouldn't ask you to call anyone out, it just isn't the same recollection I have of the conversation, but that wasn't what I was focused on. And if I had the energy or the desire I could just go back and read.

[twindaddy]

No I guess I shouldn't ask you to call anyone out, it just isn't the same recollection I have of the conversation, but that wasn't what I was focused on. And if I had the energy or the desire I could just go back and read.

Me too! Perhaps I read too much into it and went off on a tangent / soap box / high horse, in fact thats probably likely as to what happend.

[Pirate Girl]

I would recommend against this. I have to turn dozens of families away each day from my ticket window because they purchased tickets on eBay, Craigslist, etc.

You will very likely end up with no tickets at all, because they will get voided at the gate, and you will have to buy new tickets at gate price. Here in FL, its actually against the law to transfer tickets, but I'm not sure about CA.

If the cost is as prohibitive as you are mentioning, I would recommend opting for fewer days, rather than buying shady tickets.

Ticket resellers make me sad, so many families get scammed. :(

[Pirate Girl]

We had one day left on a couple of 9 day passes at the end of our vacation. We listed them on Craigslist and threw in some leftover dining vouchers, too. The people who bought them used them to buy AP's and got to apply a bunch of $ to them. The passes were AAA, so even had parking. They called us later to let us know they were THRILLED!!

In case anyone was wondering why tickets prices are so high... here's a great example. ^^^

[SigalTchelet]

In case anyone was wondering why tickets prices are so high... here's a great example. ^^^
So true...

[Bolivar]

And there is the example that I missed of someone saying it is OK to do this.