Unused remainders of passes on craigslist..?

[Bolivar]

California Penal code
537.2.b (b) Any person who uses or attempts to use ski area facilities for
which payment is required without paying as required, or who resells
a ski lift ticket to another when the resale is not authorized by
the proprietor, is guilty of an infraction.


In fact, I am doubly surprised by this, because when we catch people using the ski area without a ticket, we give them two choices: go to the ticket booth and buy one which we then confiscate and take away, or we call the sheriff and he writes you a ticket.

But that isn't the penal code the sheriff charges them with. They are charged with defrauding an innkeeper, which I grant you is really weird, but it is what they do at our hill.

[Bolivar]

Ok, sorry to just keep posting but I was curious. I looked up penal code 537 and it likely is what the seriff is using when he writes the ticket, I have never paid attention to the number. The words he writes though is "Defrauding an innkeeper" which I have always found strange, but that would fall under the same code and is likely the common name they use for that code:



537. (a) Any person who obtains any food, fuel, services, or
accommodations at a hotel, inn, restaurant, boardinghouse,
lodginghouse, apartment house, bungalow court, motel, marina, marine
facility, autocamp, ski area, or public or private campground,
without paying therefor, with intent to defraud the proprietor or
manager thereof, or who obtains credit at an hotel, inn, restaurant,
boardinghouse, lodginghouse, apartment house, bungalow court, motel,
marina, marine facility, autocamp, or public or private campground by
the use of any false pretense, or who, after obtaining credit, food,
fuel, services, or accommodations, at an hotel, inn, restaurant,
boardinghouse, lodginghouse, apartment house, bungalow court, motel,
marina, marine facility, autocamp, or public or private campground,
absconds, or surreptitiously, or by force, menace, or threats,
removes any part of his or her baggage therefrom with the intent not
to pay for his or her food or accommodations is guilty of a public
offense punishable as follows:
(1) If the value of the credit, food, fuel, services, or
accommodations is four hundred dollars ($400) or less, by a fine not
exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the
county jail for a term not exceeding six months, or both.
(2) If the value of the credit, food, fuel, services, or
accommodations is greater than four hundred dollars ($400), by
imprisonment in the county jail for a term of not more than one year,
or in the state prison.
(b) Any person who uses or attempts to use ski area facilities for
which payment is required without paying as required, or who resells
a ski lift ticket to another when the resale is not authorized by
the proprietor, is guilty of an infraction.
(c) Evidence that a person left the premises of such an hotel,
inn, restaurant, boardinghouse, lodginghouse, apartment house,
bungalow court, motel, marina, marine facility, autocamp, ski area,
or public or private campground, without paying or offering to pay
for such food, fuel, services, use of facilities, or accommodation,
or that the person, without authorization from the proprietor, resold
his or her ski lift ticket to another person after making use of
such facilities, shall be prima facie evidence of the following:
(1) That the person obtained such food, fuel, services, use of
facilities or accommodations with intent to defraud the proprietor or
manager.
(2) That, if, after obtaining the credit, food, fuel, services, or
accommodations, the person absconded, or surreptitiously, or by
force, menace, or threats, removed part of his or her baggage
therefrom, the person did so with the intent not to pay for the
credit, food, fuel, services, or accommodations.

[twindaddy]

I will NEVER forget the grilling I got when I upgraded my 8 day to an AP, back when they did 8 day PH's, it was legendary.

It might have been because I admitted to tearing the tags off of my mattreses at home AND at the Hojo.

[candles71]

In fact, I am doubly surprised by this, because when we catch people using the ski area without a ticket, we give them two choices: go to the ticket booth and buy one which we then confiscate and take away, or we call the sheriff and he writes you a ticket.

But that isn't the penal code the sheriff charges them with. They are charged with defrauding an innkeeper, which I grant you is really weird, but it is what they do at our hill.

I was going to say it's the same piece, I didn't want to quote the whole long thing, just the part I found applicable to the situation. Being the idea of Disney setting the precedent when it has already been set. Lift tickets generally fall under the less than 400 rule which would generate a fine, thus a ticket for the fine I believe. btw, I really like that several of the resorts in my area now have a parent ticket where one parent can ski while the other watches junior, and then they can switch, like childswap.;) Now, get that amount over 400 and it has jail time applicable, how is jail time not a crime?

[disneylandgirl]

But again, those saying it is illegal, what do you mean by that? Are you talking about a crime being committed and if so, what is it? I am curious.

When I said illegal, I was thinking that it really was illegal. I've heard stories on here of the people who sell the tickets getting in trouble with police. I'm talking about the "meet me offsite, cash only, I'll hold your ID until you bring the tickets back" people. But I guess what I really mean is, it's not allowed. I don't know the laws about it, but's it's definitely against Disney policy.

[candles71]

When I said illegal, I was thinking that it really was illegal. I've heard stories on here of the people who sell the tickets getting in trouble with police. I'm talking about the "meet me offsite, cash only, I'll hold your ID until you bring the tickets back" people. But I guess what I really mean is, it's not allowed. I don't know the laws about it, but's it's definitely against Disney policy.

There is another section in the penal code about re-selling tickets to any event onsite of the venue. (Which is against the penal code.)

[adriennek]

When I said illegal, I was thinking that it really was illegal. I've heard stories on here of the people who sell the tickets getting in trouble with police. I'm talking about the "meet me offsite, cash only, I'll hold your ID until you bring the tickets back" people. But I guess what I really mean is, it's not allowed. I don't know the laws about it, but's it's definitely against Disney policy.

Scalping tickets is illegal and the police could get involved with that.

I recently heard a story about a woman who purchased tickets on Ebay who was selling parkhoppers with one day on them. She actually paid more for them than a 1-day ticket because she wants to upgrade them to APs and the value of the PHs is more than she paid. Her rationale is that she's saving money because the value will be worth it when she upgrades. And the seller had used this information as a marketing tool when selling the tickets on Ebay. So the seller said "Hey, they've got lots of value so you can upgrade them."

But. He had good feedback, so his information must've been legit.

Adrienne

[Bolivar]

Now, get that amount over 400 and it has jail time applicable, how is jail time not a crime?

Oh it has jail time under $400:


(1) If the value of the credit, food, fuel, services, or
accommodations is four hundred dollars ($400) or less, by a fine not
exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the
county jail for a term not exceeding six months, or both.

That is definitely a crime. I am not saying the Disney ticket thing is a crime or it isn't. I am saying that I understand it being a violation of a contract and depending on how you use the term illegal perhaps that is what was being said. I was just looking for clarification of what people meant and I am trying to understand because I find it interesting.

I believe people saying they know of people arrested, I am just wondering what the law is they are being arrested for. Again, I find it interesting.

(And I am no lawyer so everything I said earlier about tort vs. criminal could be completely wrong. I was just stating my understanding so that my being wrong could be pointed out and to explain my thinking to help us understand each other so I understand what others are saying)

[crazysheli]

I'd way rather do the finger thing (though I can see where it's a hassle with kiddos) than the gooey stamp each day and THEN having to prove that my park hopper is MINE when I want to upgrade. It's frustrating to be doubted like that.

Ok, so this is OT from the thread but since it was brought up, do they ever even check the hand stamp? We were at DL last month and they never checked our hand stamp any of the 6 days we were there.

[twindaddy]

Ok, so this is OT from the thread but since it was brought up, do they ever even check the hand stamp? We were at DL last month and they never checked our hand stamp any of the 6 days we were there.

Never had them check...ever. But I think I have heard malcon and/or some of the more regular folks mention they have.

But then again, I have an AP, so they get my ugly mug on their screen in front of them.

[Teddi]

Yes, only only Friday Dec 18th and Saturday Dec 19th. The parks were very very busy that day.

[Malcon10t]

I have an AP. On busy days, they require us to get hand stamps and show them. I see them check hand stamps quite regularly.

[Toocherie]

My son and DIL pulled out the CC they used when they were grilled, and they STILL questioned it.

shoot--I legitimately upgraded something at WDW and I had trouble remember when and where and what I had done on what day! I really had to stop and think about it!


I don't really care what Disney does in its spreadsheets. I care about the contract I make with them and who enforces it. If they make a system they can't enforce, they should change their system. They are the business, it is their responsibility, not the government's. The government didn't design the parkhopper system.

I love Disney, but I don't want them to be able to write laws that can put people in jail.

By the same token, does that mean that shoplifting shouldn't be a crime? After all, apparently markets and department stores apparently have a system they can't enforce so why should the police get involved?

We obviously have a difference of opinion--in my mind getting discounted park tickets in a non-authorized way (which ebay and craigslist sales are) is STEALING. You're getting more than you paid for. Just as if you stole a pack of cigarettes or a sweater.

[currence]

Yes, it seems that a lot of people think that theft of "services" is a lot less serious than theft of "stuff." At the end of the day, both cost me more as a consumer when the company adjusts their prices to account for the loss.

I know someone who did buy multi-day tickets on ebay and upgraded it to a pass, way back before it was widespread enough that Disney grilled people on their habits. She bought a 5-pack of tickets on ebay, 3 adult, 2 kids and immediately resold 2 adult, 2 kids. That's a much more popular combination and she actually got more money even after ebay fees than she had paid for all 5 tickets (people are so silly sometimes). Fortunately all the tickets were valid so that wasn't a problem and she used the extra money to bring the price of her pass down even more.

We considered it that year when our passes came up for renewal, but it seemed that there were so many variables of what could go wrong that it was beyond my risk tolerance.

[adriennek]

Yes, it seems that a lot of people think that theft of "services" is a lot less serious than theft of "stuff."

I think that more and more commonly these days "theft" (and all sorts of forms of dishonesty,) is (are) more tolerated in many forms, they just don't like calling it theft (or dishonesty).

A rose by any other name...

Adrienne

[cstephens]

I think that more and more commonly these days "theft" (and all sorts of forms of dishonesty,) is (are) more tolerated in many forms, they just don't like calling it theft (or dishonesty).

A rose by any other name...

Adrienne

I've heard "but it's expensive and we can't afford it otherwise" used as an excuse to basically cheat and steal in many situations. Doesn't work for me. If we're talking about stealing food to feed your starving children or some other necessity, that's one thing, but for things that are basically luxuries? Nope.

[SigalTchelet]

I've heard "but it's expensive and we can't afford it otherwise" used as an excuse to basically cheat and steal in many situations. Doesn't work for me. If we're talking about stealing food to feed your starving children or some other necessity, that's one thing, but for things that are basically luxuries? Nope.

I certainly agree with you on that! If people really want to go to Disneyland that bad, save up your money to go. It's this society's sense of entitlement, that makes people think they can cheat the system and defraud Disney. It may not necessarily be illegal, but it is is certainly not right!

[personnext]

None of this will be possible next year as DL and DCA will be installing bio-metric readers.

These are not fingerprint scans! Such might be borderline illegal. When your finger is placed on the reader, various measurements of the size of your finger are taken and then assigned a unique biometric code. It is entirely possible that somebody else use your ticket, as long as their right index finger has the same exact measurements of your's.

[Drince88]

If they're the scanners they currently use at WDW, then yes, they do scan parts of your finger print. They USED to have biometric scanners that required two fingers, but those were replaced with the one-finger finger print scanner.

Supposedly they don't store enough information for it to be used for identification purposes, though.

If someone wants to discuss this, we can start another thread and I can dig up some stuff from when WDW made the switch.

[DLANDLUVR]

One time my father did some work for Disneyland tickets instead of acual pay and when we get to the gate...the tickets dont work! :eek: We think the guy who he did the work for got them off of craigslist but he didnt know they were fake. At the gate, the nicest cast member said we were being very patient and tolerant in this bad situation and let us in anyway! It was amazing! Afterall....my parents were with a 14 and 8 yr old :rolleyes:
Even if it is cheaper....they could be fake and then you have to buy a full price ticket so $50 went out the window. I wouldnt take the risk.Personally.

[candles71]

. I wouldnt take the risk.Personally.
Don't take this wrong as I am truly sincere...but for a 13 year old I like you a lot. We could be great friends.;) 13 year olds with a level head on their shoulders are hard to come by you know.:p

[DLANDLUVR]

Don't take this wrong as I am truly sincere...but for a 13 year old I like you a lot. We could be great friends.;) 13 year olds with a level head on their shoulders are hard to come by you know.:p

Thank you! I think MousePlanet brings out the best of me! :p

[cookie7762]

I upgraded a buy-3-get-5-days park hopper last summer without even the slightest questioning. I had a list of the time we had entered the park just in case they did ask and I wan't able to accurately remember because I have heard on here so many times that they will grill you.

What makes some cast members suspicious of upgrades and others not?

[twindaddy]

I find threads like this so fun, really. I would never buy an obviously fraudulent ticket, but then again I have been known to take food into the movies....and I download music off youtube all theb time. I suppose everyone has a line they are not willing to cross.....

[Crazy4DL]

I find threads like this so fun, really. I would never buy an obviously fraudulent ticket, but then again I have been known to take food into the movies....and I download music off youtube all theb time. I suppose everyone has a line they are not willing to cross.....

:eek:

Off with your head!

:p