PAP Renewal "Black Hole"

[Second Star]

If they let people know ahead of time that your old pass won't be valid from the time the new one is mailed, I do not see what the big deal is. I don't recall how, but I knew that before I renewed by mail. If you know you're going to want to visit the parks during what would be that week or two "gray area", don't renew by mail. Your old pass becomes invalid once the new one is created and mailed to you, therefore the CM was doing his job.

This is a bit hyperbolic, but let's say... You buy a 5 day park hopper ticket at one of the ticket booth, but because its after 2PM Disney's policy is to start the clock on the ticket but not activate for use until the following morning. So, in effect you just bought a 4 day ticket for the price of a 5 day.

So if this was Disney policy, you'd be okay with that?

[disney42dude]

This is a bit hyperbolic, but let's say... You buy a 5 day park hopper ticket at one of the ticket booth, but because its after 2PM Disney's policy is to start the clock on the ticket but not activate for use until the following morning. So, in effect you just bought a 4 day ticket for the price of a 5 day.

So if this was Disney policy, you'd be okay with that?

No. If the only way to renew was by mail and everyone was put in this situation I wouldn't be okay with that either. However, it's a renewal option that works for some, but obvioulsy not for others.

[Second Star]

No. If the only way to renew was by mail and everyone was put in this situation I wouldn't be okay with that either. However, it's a renewal option that works for some, but obvioulsy not for others.

So now we're talk about the degree to which it is okay to screw someone. You choose option one, so you get a pass that is good for 365 days, I choose option two, so I get the same pass, but it only good for 350 days. I don't care (yeah, I know there I go ahead :eek:) if it is a policy or not, it is wrong, and if I happen to encounter such a situation, I am going to complaint about it, and loudly if I have too. Making it a policy does not make it right.

[adriennek]

So now we're talk about the degree to which it is okay to screw someone

Snip To

Making it a policy does not make it right.

What SecondStar Said.

Adrienne

[currence]

Then I want my $14.98 back ($389 divided by 365 days times 14 days of gray area):rolleyes::eyeroll:


But you got your $14.98 back. They gave you a $20 discount to renew by mail. Of course, some people have also reported success in getting the discount by renewing in advance in person so they would have to take that away if they are compensating you for being in the black hole


If they let people know ahead of time that your old pass won't be valid from the time the new one is mailed, I do not see what the big deal is. [snip to] Your old pass becomes invalid once the new one is created and mailed to you, therefore the CM was doing his job.

One part of the "big deal" is that the old pass in only invalid once the new one is created/mailed. That means that until the credit card is charged, your old pass is valid. So if I want to go to the park, I can (in theory) check to see if my credit card has been charged and if it has not, I'm good to go. But what if it's charged while I'm there? I might go from having an active pass to an inactive one when I try to park-hop. (Imagine explaining that to a CM?) Easy solution is to not go from when you mail in your money until the pass comes in the mail, but even that's not foolproof if the renewal gets lost in the mail since until the card is charged you assume that it's merely in transit/process.


So now we're talk about the degree to which it is okay to screw someone. You choose option one, so you get a pass that is good for 365 days, I choose option two, so I get the same pass, but it only good for 350 days. I don't care (yeah, I know there I go ahead :eek:) if it is a policy or not, it is wrong, and if I happen to encounter such a situation, I am going to complaint about it, and loudly if I have too. Making it a policy does not make it right.

My first thought when I heard that they were offered the courtesy pass was to see if they oculd make sure that it was counted against their "current" pass. If I had a pass that would expire in two weeks, I probably wouldn't care if I used my one get in free for the year. But I would refuse as Tinkermommy did if they tried to count a courtesy visit against a pass I hadn't even received in the mail yet.

I have only used my free visit once in the 10+ years I've been a passholder and received a replacement card once in the same period (different event). I actually thought I would have to buy a replacement card on the second time and was quite happy that I could get in once without having to buy the replacement.

Disney saves money by doing online and by mail processing. They offer incentives to get people to do this such as the special designs and renewal discounts. They should, as part of their customer service, create a standard operating procedure to allow guests with two years of valid passes (which in many businesses would be considered "loyal customers") to enter during the time period which - to save Disney money - they do not have an pass in their possession which Disney recognizes as valid.



You wouldn't be much of a lead if every time you are asked for help by your crew, you basically make them look like idiots or worse because they didn't help the guest the way the lead was "able to". Believe me, I see it every day when a lead makes some "exception", then forces the CM to basically go eat their words and do what the guest wanted in the first place, even if it is against the "rules" that the CM was trained to follow. It doesn't help the morale of your crew very much.

Even if it requires calling a lead - there should be a way to do an override and ideally print a comp ticket or manually activate the old AP, so that the guest could take advantage of fastpass and parkhop without further incident. I don't see why the CM has to be made to look like an idiot. If a CM explains to me that what I'm asking for is something that they don't have the power to do, but it I would step aside they would call a lead for me, then eveyone is more or less happy. I could see if it I was demanding to be let in for free because "don't you know who I am" or I had an expired ticket or a ticket where the signature didn't match and the CM already said no. I just don't see this as a situation where the CM should be saying no. SO if they can't make it happen they should get someone who can

[K & S]

The obvious solution is for DLR to change their software programing to not cancel a valid pass until it's expiration date or until the new pass is used for the first time.

Although when I have renewed online, I always get our new passes with four days. Last year I renewed on Wednesday night and we received our passes on Saturday.

[cstephens]

No. If the only way to renew was by mail and everyone was put in this situation I wouldn't be okay with that either. However, it's a renewal option that works for some, but obvioulsy not for others.

And the only reason that it doesn't work for everyone is because IT'S A PROBLEM WITH DISNEY'S SYSTEM. Really, I don't get why the customer is punished because the business can't handle the situation.



Disney saves money by doing online and by mail processing. They offer incentives to get people to do this such as the special designs and renewal discounts. They should, as part of their customer service, create a standard operating procedure to allow guests with two years of valid passes (which in many businesses would be considered "loyal customers") to enter during the time period which - to save Disney money - they do not have an pass in their possession which Disney recognizes as valid.

Bingo. Disney prefers that people renew by mail and offers all kinds of incentives to do that. So to turn around and then punish them is just stupid.

[Boo's Mommy]

But you got your $14.98 back. They gave you a $20 discount to renew by mail.

So it almost sounds like the same type of "marketing" used for the proposed changes to the BBQ. You're not REALLY saving much if you look at it from this point of view.

I haven't gone recently during that cusp for my AP. I did a couple of years ago, but the CM on the phone said that it wouldn't be a problem to just bring my reciept - but this was pre-"finance your AP days".

[tHeDiSnEyKiD]

It is pretty nice to go from a SoCal to a Premium, a lot of added benefit, especially when done at the park.

I don't get why you would renew online anyway. Just go to the park and do it there. It saves so many headaches. It's simple and it's done in about 5 minutes.

I never liked having a SoCal and was just waiting for my renewal date to start so I can renew and upgrade to a premium.

I understand that some of you have a family of 4 or more and a premium pass for everyone isnt't worth it, but it is. I HAVE NO MONEY and I still got a premium. What I'm trying to say, is get a premium and forget the money issue. If you're worried about what pass to get and how much it'll cost, then don't even buy one if money is going to run your life like that.

There are some things in life you go ALL OUT for, and a Dland pass is certainly something worth going ALL OUT. Just get a premium and and go have fun.

[cstephens]

I don't get why you would renew online anyway. Just go to the park and do it there. It saves so many headaches. It's simple and it's done in about 5 minutes.

The line to purchase and/or renew your AP is often longer than 5 minutes.

The benefits to renewing online? 1) It's really the only way (yeah, I know, they sometimes make exceptions) to get the special designs on the AP and 2) I don't have to wait in ANY line. As a matter of fact, I don't have to do anything at all, because the husband can renew both his and mine at the same time online, whereas at the park, we'd both have to renew each of our passes.



I understand that some of you have a family of 4 or more and a premium pass for everyone isnt't worth it, but it is. I HAVE NO MONEY and I still got a premium. What I'm trying to say, is get a premium and forget the money issue. If you're worried about what pass to get and how much it'll cost, then don't even buy one if money is going to run your life like that.

I think that's a pretty disingenuous and frankly, mean thing to say. Not all families need a premium AP if that's not how their visits are going to work. I have a friend who did just fine with the lowest level AP because she worked 7 days and then was off 7 days, so she could go during the week when she was off work, so the weekend blockout days didn't affect her. She doesn't like to go when it's super crowded or super hot, so being blocked out for summer doesn't bother her.

As for the "money run your life" comment, there are a lot of people who could have used a little more of letting money run their lives, because then they might have spent money responsibly instead of being in debt up to their eyeballs and losing their houses because they spent money stupidly instead of paying their mortgage.

[DaDuckFan1955]

Or they could simply let the old card work till its expiration date, and then the new card would take over. In the case of the OP, his old card would continue to work till 7/17, at which time he'd start to use his new card. Why does it have to be any more complicated than that?

Why that would mean they care about the customer (guest) experiencing superior customer service!:fez:

In this day and Age with technology it is not that hard to do, but someone is obviously oblivious to customer satisfaction, otherwise this would be the norm...Other companies do this with their credit cards...

[DaDuckFan1955]

.

[Second Star]

Why that would mean they care about the customer (guest) experiencing superior customer service!:fez:

In this day and Age with technology it is not that hard to do, but someone is obviously oblivious to customer satisfaction, otherwise this would be the norm...Other companies do this with their credit cards...

As I said earlier in this thread, it may not be quite as easy you'd like to think. And how do you know that Disney isn't looking for a solution for this problem?

[danyoung]

I simply can't accept that it would be so difficult. When you get a replacement credit card, your current one is good until you activate the new card by calling the phone number on the little sticker. That would be an incredibly easy thing to implement with AP's, and would totally prevent the dark time in between passes.

[Second Star]

I simply can't accept that it would be so difficult. When you get a replacement credit card, your current one is good until you activate the new card by calling the phone number on the little sticker. That would be an incredibly easy thing to implement with AP's, and would totally prevent the dark time in between passes.

All I can after 30 years working in finance and technology development in companies ranging in size from about 10 million to more that several billion in revenue is, not as easy as most would like to think. And actually as a company get bigger the challenges increase.

And just to throw one more wrinkle at it, has anyone heard of SOX?

[candles71]

I simply can't accept that it would be so difficult. When you get a replacement credit card, your current one is good until you activate the new card by calling the phone number on the little sticker. That would be an incredibly easy thing to implement with AP's, and would totally prevent the dark time in between passes.

That is an excellent suggestion!!!

[danyoung]

Second Star, I have no doubt that a solution to this problem would be difficult to implement across the many hundreds of thousands of annual passes. My point is, difficult or not, this type of ridiculous hole in the system should be corrected, especially since the technology exists and is in use by most major credit card providers in the world today.

[DaDuckFan1955]

As I said earlier in this thread, it may not be quite as easy you'd like to think. And how do you know that Disney isn't looking for a solution for this problem?

Hopefully they are, but since there seems to be issues with CM's at the gates having a temp solution as has been posted by others, it appears they might not a looking for a solution.

As one poster suggested the CM's should have options at the gate, such as a number to call to verify AP is renewed or in process and until then a NON EXPIRED AP is to be accepted, unless it is on a cancel list, which a lead should have access to in numerical and/or alpha format to expediate lookup as they ask Guest to step to the side while they verify AP has not been cancelled for bad behavior, non payment, lost/stolen, etc,etc.

[Second Star]

Second Star, I have no doubt that a solution to this problem would be difficult to implement across the many hundreds of thousands of annual passes. My point is, difficult or not, this type of ridiculous hole in the system should be corrected, especially since the technology exists and is in use by most major credit card providers in the world today.

I am not disagreeing with you that this should be fixed, and I agree that your idea would correct the situation. I was commenting on your claim that you didn't believe it was difficult, and that the system used by credit card companies would be easy to implement.

And, I would bet that Disney is looking at solutions as we speak. But, I also know that a simple feature upgrade in one our systems can take as much as 6 to 9 months to get implemented. The technology is not a huge issue, but the compliance pieces just keep growing.

[danyoung]

I guess I did say those things, didn't I? You can't expect me to be consistent all the time now, can you?

[Second Star]

I guess I did say those things, didn't I? You can't expect me to be consistent all the time now, can you?

Not a problem. I've been there, and done that myself. :D

[AVP]

Since so many of us renew our APs around this time of year, I thought I'd share my current experience with the renewal process.

We received our forms and renewed online, opting to pay the balance in full rather than signing up for the monthly payments. We have Premium APs.

I tried to enter DCA Sunday morning, and my AP was denied. Since I've been through this before, I knew what the likely problem was, and told the CM that I just renewed. That, combined with the 12/31 expiration date on my AP, has always been enough for the CM to override the computer and let me in. Not this year. This time, the CM had to call a lead, who had to do something I've never seen before - pull up my history on the little computer screen to verify that I had, in fact, renewed my AP.

I don't get that. It actually shouldn't matter if I've renewed the pass, the one I'm HOLDING is still valid through 12/31.

While the whole exercise was somewhat interesting - I've never seen my AP history record before, which lists my renewal dates and price paid each year ($198 in 2002 - wow have these gone up!) - it took 5 minutes. As she finally overrode the computer, the lead suggested that I go to guest services and ask for a "courtesy pass," the kind you get up to once a year when you forget your AP, so I wouldn't have problems when I tried to park hop. I pointed out that I was planning to visit Disneyland both Monday and Tuesday, and she said I'd have the same problems each day until my renewal pass came in the mail.

Fortunately the CM at the Disneyland entrance accepted my handstamp (I got one exactly for that reason) and the 12/31 expiration date, and let me into DL without having to call a lead or do another computer search.

Tony had an easier time of getting into Disneyland the same morning - the CM accepted his expiration date without further research - but discovered that he couldn't get FastPass tickets all day.

On Monday, I discovered that not only was my pass "invalid" for park admission, but also for AP discounts at the stores. Both times I tried to make a purchase, the cashier had to call a lead to override the computer, because the system said my pass was "declined." According to the merchandise lead, this is all to prevent people who have defaulted on their monthly payments from obtaining a discount they aren't entitled to. I completely sympathize with the issue, but inconveniencing the rest of us to crack down on some deadbeat APs is NOT the answer I would have suggested had anyone asked me.

My new pass still hasn't arrived, so I'm giving it one more day before I go to the AP center and politely demand that they print me a valid AP so I can stop dealing with this hassle.

AVP

[danyoung]

I don't get that. It actually shouldn't matter if I've renewed the pass, the one I'm HOLDING is still valid through 12/31.

As I understand it, the minute you order a new AP your existing one goes belly up. I guess this is to keep 2 annual passes from becoming valid for one person, but it sure makes it rough when you renew by mail. The only way around this that I can see is to renew in person, which is not always possible for everyone to do.

[Hannahbelle]

I completely sympathize with the issue, but inconveniencing the rest of us to crack down on some deadbeat APs is NOT the answer I would have suggested had anyone asked me.
AVP

I agree!

Thanks for sharing your experience with us, AVP.

This whole, grey area/ black hole situation is ridiculous IMO.

[Malcon10t]

As I understand it, the minute you order a new AP your existing one goes belly up. I guess this is to keep 2 annual passes from becoming valid for one person, but it sure makes it rough when you renew by mail. The only way around this that I can see is to renew in person, which is not always possible for everyone to do.It has always had this happen. The issue is the payment plan. Before, they could look at the renewal date and go "Oh, no problem, you just renewed." But with people flaking out on their monthly payments, they no longer know if the issue is a close renewal? Flaking on a payment? Or whatever else can go wrong.