PAP Renewal "Black Hole"

[jcruise86]

The machine is only as good as the programming behind it. Which is why Macs run smoother....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Steve Jobs now owns a $7*!load of Disney shares since he sold Pixar to Disney. He's been ill, but maybe he could point the way to some help.

[Second Star]

Second Star, I enjoyed your explanation, but I have to take on your joke. It's supposed to be only 10 types of people - those who understand binary, and those who don't (10 being the binary equivalent of 2 decimal). That way, it's funny!

Yes, I've have heard it that way too, but, I still think its funny the way I heard. :)

[olegc]

i totally agree on the ROI thing. operationally it makes sense - and a little pain spread around for folks is a nominal risk to Disney based on the desire people have to hold on to their APs..

Still - it's one reason why I renew on site instead of the mail.


And - FWIW - yes there are legacy systems, and you can nuke and pave - or try any number of other methods (SOA, web services, messaging systems) to circumvent that. Again - it goes back to what you were saying.

For me - though -whenever there is a comment from Disney corporate that they appreciate the APs and want them to be part of the family - they leave out one thing. What they appreciate is the money and we're all smart enough to know that.

[Second Star]

For me - though -whenever there is a comment from Disney corporate that they appreciate the APs and want them to be part of the family - they leave out one thing. What they appreciate is the money and we're all smart enough to know that.

I think your right, but a bit cynical. They do appreciate the money, after all their primary duty is a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. Second is the best product for the money they can provide for their customers.

Like I said before, customer service can always be better, but I do see them trying to approve the experience for APs. I do think that represents an honest appreciation.

[Tinkermommy]

I would say that customer service in this instance is adequate to the task.

I suppose it's all a matter of perspective. I'm not trying to argue -- just emphasizing the perspective of the affected customer -- me -- relative to the statement above.

I had a valid pass in hand for which I'd paid in full, good for nine more days (from the date this occurred). So did my daughter. I'd also paid a substantial amount of money for the coming year. Both were the most expensive pass -- no blackout days.

In spite of all this, I had to persuade two very reluctant cast members to "allow" us in that day, and got no help at all from Guest Services -- where I was made to feel responsible for this issue arising from their way of handling online renewals. What if I'd used the benefit as GS insisted I had to do -- then come back the next day? Would we have been denied entry completely, or forced to pay for a ticket, when we'd already paid for the day?

In my mind, it's like ordering an expensive cut of meat from a restaurant, and having it arrive stone cold. Okay, it's cold and disgusting, but it's food, so it's adequate? That's my perspective.

On the other hand, I do understand it probably doesn't happen often, so perhaps it's not worth reprogramming the gate entry system to accommodate issues arising from Disney having added the monthly payment option last year.

But there should be a better way to handle it at the gate. If it had been a busy day, not only would we have been uncomfortable (which we were anyway), but people behind us would have been inconvenienced as well, and likely annoyed, because it took a lot of discussion to get them to let us use our passes. Just my two cents!

[VickiC]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Steve Jobs now owns a $7*!load of Disney shares since he sold Pixar to Disney. He's been ill, but maybe he could point the way to some help.

Jobs' company is not really in the business of building giant database servers.

Aquarium of the Pacific seems to have a good system. The pass has no printed expiration date, when I renew it automatically updates in the system, never had it denied.

[Autopia Guy]

Aquarium of the Pacific seems to have a good system. The pass has no printed expiration date, when I renew it automatically updates in the system, never had it denied.

Aquarium of the Pacific has the same system that Disneyland does, just on a smaller scale.

[HobbitFeet]

Since you knew you were only going one day, I just don't understand the reluctance to take the offered "one time a year" pass.

For a longer trip, I would get it. But for a one day trip and if you're local...

[Tinkermommy]

Since you knew you were only going one day, I just don't understand the reluctance to take the offered "one time a year" pass. For a longer trip, I would get it. But for a one day trip and if you're local...

I'm not exactly local -- I live more than an hour and a half away from Disneyland. But that's a fair question -- the reason I wasn't willing to use my once-annually courtesy pass is because it's designed for you to be allowed to enter (once only) if you lose your pass, or if you forget to bring it. Of course, I had my paid-for pass and receipt for the following year's pass in hand, so I shouldn't have needed to use the courtesy pass at all.

We visit at least once a month, so we have plenty of opportunities to lose or forget our passes, in which case we'd need that benefit. Additionally, while I almost always carry our passes, we have many good friends who are also annual passholders, and who I would not hesitate to allow to take my daughter to Disneyland. If she's with them and they want to make a spur-of-the-moment trip, they could take her in without her pass -- but only once.

Therefore, I wasn't willing to "waste" a valuable benefit that I feel I shouldn't have told I had to use under the circumstances that I was. Had I used it that day, when I had a paid-for pass, it would have been unavailable to us for a whole year.

[Second Star]

I suppose it's all a matter of perspective. I'm not trying to argue -- just emphasizing the perspective of the affected customer -- me -- relative to the statement above.

I had a valid pass in hand for which I'd paid in full, good for nine more days (from the date this occurred). So did my daughter. I'd also paid a substantial amount of money for the coming year. Both were the most expensive pass -- no blackout days.

In spite of all this, I had to persuade two very reluctant cast members to "allow" us in that day, and got no help at all from Guest Services -- where I was made to feel responsible for this issue arising from their way of handling online renewals. What if I'd used the benefit as GS insisted I had to do -- then come back the next day? Would we have been denied entry completely, or forced to pay for a ticket, when we'd already paid for the day?

In my mind, it's like ordering an expensive cut of meat from a restaurant, and having it arrive stone cold. Okay, it's cold and disgusting, but it's food, so it's adequate? That's my perspective.

On the other hand, I do understand it probably doesn't happen often, so perhaps it's not worth reprogramming the gate entry system to accommodate issues arising from Disney having added the monthly payment option last year.

But there should be a better way to handle it at the gate. If it had been a busy day, not only would we have been uncomfortable (which we were anyway), but people behind us would have been inconvenienced as well, and likely annoyed, because it took a lot of discussion to get them to let us use our passes. Just my two cents!

Sorry, meant to respond last night, but my home PC decided it needed a nap. :mad:

I'm was trying to minimize your experience, and I fully agree that there is a better way to run this process. Everytime a customer was a bad experience, you take the risk of losing that customer, and usually a few more with him or her. You point on the steak is a good one. Yes it food, so adequate to the task of feeding you. If you accept that meal without question or complaint then, well yes the customer service is adequate at that moment. If you complain and the restaurant doesn't make it right to your satisfaction, then it no go, and I personally would return the that restaurant.

Will they need to find a better way, Disney did honor your pass, and tried to make it right (BTW, I agree the using the one time deal isn't a good option when you are standing there with a valid pass). The only intent of my question is, are you considering not using the AP system in the future or going to stop going to Disneyland as a result of this experience.

And, BTW, did email or written to Diseny about this experience. That is probably the best way to get you dissatisfaction across. Yes, I know you will probably get a canned response back, but, those emails and letters do not go unread.

Just a thought.

[Tinkermommy]

I'm was trying to minimize your experience, and I fully agree that there is a better way to run this process. ...And, BTW, did email or written to Diseny about this experience. That is probably the best way to get you dissatisfaction across.

I didn't take it that way at all -- no worries. To me, this thread is a conversation. By posting, I invited different perspectives!

I doubt I'll write to Disney about the experience. I've learned in this thread that my experience was rare. (In seven years of being a PAP, it was a first for us.)

That's one of the things I love about MP. One can post about an experience, and discuss it. I never dreamed this thread would go over a page, but it's been interesting to me to hear what other people had to say about the process. :)

[Second Star]

I didn't take it that way at all -- no worries. To me, this thread is a conversation. By posting, I invited different perspectives!

I doubt I'll write to Disney about the experience. I've learned in this thread that my experience was rare. (In seven years of being a PAP, it was a first for us.)

That's one of the things I love about MP. One can post about an experience, and discuss it. I never dreamed this thread would go over a page, but it's been interesting to me to hear what other people had to say about the process. :)

That's cool. :)

Personally, I think you should write, if only because you are a generally satisfied customer only trying to point out an issue. Those kind of letters often times carry a lot more weight then the general rants. I know, I've written both kind. :D

And I agree with on MP :cool:

[Crazy4DL]

Therefore, I wasn't willing to "waste" a valuable benefit that I feel I shouldn't have told I had to use under the circumstances that I was. Had I used it that day, when I had a paid-for pass, it would have been unavailable to us for a whole year.

I agree you shouldn't have had to waste a valuable benefit. I am glad you were able to enter without using that benefit.

I wonder if, since others have had little trouble, you didn't just happen to get a couple of CM's that were more literal or whatever than some of the others. I know, I have hung up and rephoned places at times because the person I am talking to isn't going to remotely think of a way to solve my problem. I just say okay and let them go and call back and amazingly the next person, working for the exact same company, can help me. ;)

[Second Star]

I wonder if, since others have had little trouble, you didn't just happen to get a couple of CM's that were more literal or whatever than some of the others. I know, I have hung up and rephoned places at times because the person I am talking to isn't going to remotely think of a way to solve my problem. I just say okay and let them go and call back and amazingly the next person, working for the exact same company, can help me. ;)

That was kind of my thought too, and a good reason to write Disney about it. It has been my experience the information travel down through an organization a whole lot fast than up. Wonder if that has anything to do with gravity? :rolleyes:

[Malcon10t]

I doubt I'll write to Disney about the experience. I've learned in this thread that my experience was rare. (In seven years of being a PAP, it was a first for us.)
You should write. If the problem only occurs once a month, but none of those twelve ever tell them about it, they won't know it is happening. Not always does the front line CM get the point to the guys in the suits. They need to know this is happening. I would do it from the point "You need to be aware this is happening."

[shna]

Sort of related to the "black hole" problem ... when they mail your renewal pass, I think it should say somewhere that the guest needs to use the new pass rather than the old pass even if the old pass hasn't technically expired. We got our first annual passes a few years ago (2005 maybe??). The first time renewal came up, we renewed online & got our new passes a few days later -- still before the old passes had expired. We went to the parks a few days after the new passes came in, and tried to use the old passes -- in our minds, it seemed logical that the old pass would be valid until the expiration date, and that the new pass would become valid the next day. Boing! Luckily, we had put the new passes into our wallets as well (I have no idea why we did that, honestly) -- so when the CM asked if we had renewed, we said yes & pulled out the new passes. Happy Chirp! Since then, I've known to bring the new one right away...

[HorizonsA]

I have to say that I am on Disney's side on this one. If you already previously knew that you had renewed your pass and you knew it hadn't come yet, then Disney has every right to be reluctant to issue you a ticket. And you should've just taken the courtesy ticket. Are you that much a forgetful person that you know you will forget to bring your pass in the future?


He eventually did an override, but he was very reluctant to do so.

And I think he had every right to be reluctant because he was doing his job. I'm sure he was sick of people constantly trying to make excuses to get in the park. Just as I'm sure the City Hall Cast Members are sick of hearing so many stupid complaints from ungrateful guests. I'm so glad that I wasn't hired into being a ticket taker. I'm perfectly happy working in stores where guests don't go out of their way to get a price reduction. They know what the prices are, and if they want a discount, they know what they need to do to get it.

And the Cast Members that do work at the turnstyles are starting to get more strict, because management is tired of people trying to cheat their way into the park when they know every well the rules of entry.

[adriennek]

And I think he had every right to be reluctant because he was doing his job. I'm sure he was sick of people constantly trying to make excuses to get in the park. Just as I'm sure the City Hall Cast Members are sick of hearing so many stupid complaints from ungrateful guests.

You know, I'm wondering if you thought about these sentences before you hit send. I get that being in customer service can be a crummy position. I get that people cheat. I see people cheating far too often. But... "sick and tired of people trying to make excuses to get into the park"???

The OP had renewed her pass and had the receipt to prove it. Her new pass hadn't arrived. These are not EXCUSES or a person trying to CHEAT. It really doesn't matter what the CM is "sick and tired" of, CMs don't have the right to take it out on honest guests!

I don't care how many "stupid" complaints they get. That's really not my problem if I have a legitimate problem that needs to be fixed.

If cast members are so jaded that they suspect everyone and can't see the forest for the trees, they need to find new jobs.

Adrienne

[Tinkermommy]

Thank you, Adriennek. I've been sitting here weighing my response to this post, but figured it wasn't worth it, based upon this part:


...Cast Members are sick of hearing so many stupid complaints from ungrateful guests.

I paid over $700 for passes that weren't at their expiration date, paid another $700-plus for renewals, and actually expected to be admitted to the park. I can see how that would be considered unreasonable. :rolleyes:

[adriennek]

I paid over $700 for passes that weren't at their expiration date, paid another $700-plus for renewals, and actually expected to be admitted to the park. I can see how that would be considered unreasonable. :rolleyes:

Oh yes, and I remember hearing all about how you announced "DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM!?!???" as you waved your receipt in their faces. So inappropriate. ;)

That's TOTALLY you.

Adrienne

[Tinkermommy]

I guess the ermine robe and tiara was too much after all...:p

[DisneyFunFamily4]

I paid over $700 for passes that weren't at their expiration date, paid another $700-plus for renewals, and actually expected to be admitted to the park. I can see how that would be considered unreasonable. :rolleyes:

Totally unreasonable TinkerMommy... what in the world were you thinking? I mean you had you're passes that should still be valid and your receipt saying your paid a bunch of money for your renewal and you still expected them to let you in to the park? :eek::rolleyes::D Wow, what nerve!!!

[Malcon10t]

I have to say that I am on Disney's side on this one. If you already previously knew that you had renewed your pass and you knew it hadn't come yet, then Disney has every right to be reluctant to issue you a ticket.WOW.... So, I hold a $389 PAP which is valid 365 days. 30 days before my expiration, I renew my PAP for an additional $369. It can take up to 2 weeks to get my pass. So, you are saying for those 2 weeks, I shouldn't be allowed to use my original pass?? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of holding a PAP?

[adriennek]

I guess the ermine robe and tiara was too much after all...:p

Next time you should take the dalmatian trimmed coat.



WOW.... So, I hold a $389 PAP which is valid 365 days. 30 days before my expiration, I renew my PAP for an additional $369. It can take up to 2 weeks to get my pass. So, you are saying for those 2 weeks, I shouldn't be allowed to use my original pass?? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of holding a PAP?

No. Because at some point in time, someone was unreasonable to a CM and because of that, all guests should be viewed with contempt and suspicion. You should be GLAD that Disneyland let you renew your pass in the first place you ungrateful little guest.

And I want you to say that to your daughter. With a straight face.

Adrienne

[cstephens]

Oh yes, and I remember hearing all about how you announced "DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM!?!???" as you waved your receipt in their faces. So inappropriate. ;)

That's TOTALLY you.

Adrienne

I think you forgot "I pay your salary".